Animosity

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

Why is there so much animosity between believers in Christ? Why so much anger, in-fighting, willful displays, rudeness, and insults? Not to mention judgement, condemnation, and just down right meanness.

I read some posts here and wonder if some people wake up in the morning and pray "Dear Lord, please make me exceptionally surly and prideful today...."

I know my sins of pride, spite, and anger. My Christ and I are dealing with those daily. After nearly 20 years away from the body of Christ for reasons such as those mentioned above.

I came here hoping for knowledge and fellowship. What I find is a few who appear knowledgable about the bible but practice none of the love and grace which is commanded in it. Some who have a single agenda in every post, and some who, praise God, have a desire to share and learn and love.
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admin · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:12 am Post subject:

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csl81love · Sea Monkey Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 10

I have often wondered this same thing myself. It seems that we, as christians, sometimes forget that we have put on Christ when we were saved and baptised. I think the newness for some people has worn off. I don't have the answers. I just know that when I behave badly it is because I am forgetting who I am in Christ. Maybe this is true for others as well.
Gods' Peace,
Charity
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Van · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Standing firm

The rebuke of a friend is more valuable than the kiss of an enemy.
Christians are to stand firm, and not let charges of being intolerate or unkind move them from a clear presentation of the Gospel of Christ.
We are to love one another, not kill our children.

Say a non-Christian was pretending to be a Christian. He comes preaching an different gospel. Are we to check what he says against our understanding of scripture and hold on to what is good? Yes. Are we to stand firm against false teachings. Yes. Does this open us up to the charge of animosity? Yes. But to suffer for the Lord is a blessing.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

Thank you Van for demonstrating my point.
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Captain Vegetable · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:43 pm Post subject:

I agree with Van, 100%. So, count me as a demonstrator too.
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Nobby · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 1:42 pm Post subject: Standing firm

What I'm hearing here is great! As Christians we must stand firm!
When anything is posted on this board & it doesn't hold true to the word of God, we must speak out. Otherwise people who read these posts will be reading false teachings. If they go unanswered!
You guys keep up the good work. Smile

I wish we could get our studies to moving, it's awful slow Exclamation

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RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

Perhaps I just misunderstand firmness. It is entirely possible that I have taken offense at firm tactics thinking they were insults, or rudeness, contriteness, callousness...

I've always assumed that using words like drivel and blather when addressing someone's comments was rude and insulting. I can understand the concept of standing firm, what is putting the chaff in my trousers is the idea that standing firm somehow equates to bad behavior. I can stand firm, respectfully and humbly. I can make my point without insult, or condescension, or condemnation and still stick to my beliefs. I would expect no less from those who claim to honor Christ.

I also am concerned with assumptions being made and continual insults being lobbed, or insulting behavior engaged in based on those assumpitons. If you say someone is A and they emphatically state that they are not A, what right do you have to insist they are A and continue to engage in demeaning and insulting behaviors?

What is Jesus' ultimate commandment? What lesson does he teach above all others? What rule did he give us that is considered so important that we have gilded it in gold? That is the rule I would expect to see practiced here by those claiming to be followers of Christ.
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Van · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:16 pm Post subject: Abortion

Killing the pre-born child is wrong. Anyone who says it is ok because the little tyke is souless is advocating murder. The arguments used to support such a mindless and cruel position are drivel. This cannot be hidden by trying to shift the subject to the behavior of your opponents. Such posts are blather.

I have demonstrated by referring to specific verses that your position is without merit. The bible says John the Baptist jumped for joy when he heard the voice of the mother of God. The point of the passage was recognition of God's blessing. But you dismissed it as the baby just jumping at the sound as some sort of souless creature. Blather.

The bible says if you cause a miscarrage and the baby dies, the punishment shall be a life for a life, clearly suggesting that the preborn is alive in order to lose its life. God gives that life. To destroy the life given by God is wrong. God set aside some individuals "from the womb" meaning while still in the womb, clearly indicating ensoulment prior to birth. Samson was set aside from the womb and the mother was given directions to protect the dedicated unborn child. God's involvment clearly demonstrates ensoulment before birth.

God caused some women, some even barren, to conceive so that the individual could play a part in God's purpose and plan of salvation. Clearly to abort these babies would have been prevented by the very hand of God.

In summary, you have not been insulted, your position has been attacked as drivel and blather because it is drivel and blather. Now, I have been called an ignorant jackass, that comes much closer to being just a tad insulting don't you think. But I did not respond because I want to discuss abortion, and not subsitute an off-topic red herring concerning the behavior of individuals. That would be a tactic of sophistry.

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

Van · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:32 pm Post subject: Defining insult

It seems if you provided referenced positions from the bible they can be called mere assertions and not be insulting. How PC. Drivel is a perfectly good word, as is blather and bogus. They convey the idea that the position is without merit. To focus on these words is to shift the subject and bring the conduct of the opponent into the discussion, rather than the topic at hand. Such action is sophistry, not Christian.

The agenda of this team is tolerance for bogus views. To whip opponents with the lash of charges of a lack of love, to get opponents to stop stating the biblical position clearly. To blur the line. I will have none of it. I will not be a co-enablier of sin. God help me, here I stand!

Dshadna · German Shepherd Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 344

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

I'm sorry. Someone must have misunderstood the topic of this thread. It was entitled 'Animostity' and was started to discuss that idea. Somehow Van you've chosen to drag the abortion debate over here, leave it where it is please, as this thread has nothing to do with it.
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Van · Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:31 pm Post subject: Attack of Van

It has been stated and implied that my descriptions of the arguments for abortion as blather, drivel and bogus are rude and insulting. However, this premise is false and a calculated attack on me.

Lets review the record. Here is what RevJP has said:

"Van's rambling and mostly incoherent response has still failed to offer anything substantive."

"To wallow in the quickly deepening mire of personal attacks serves no purpose. I only wanted sound argument as to "why abortion is wrong", thus far I recieved passionate opinion based on tenuous biblical evidence, and nothing that I have not heard a million times before from the parrotting conservative christian's."

"Van, you've repeated the same thing over and over again and have never really proven your case, either through empirical biblical evidence or sound logical argument."

"Not only that but you keep adding statements that are untrue to say the least."

However, to describe an argument is not an insult, but a descriptive, so I have insulted no one. Here is how RevJP put it: "By the way, sophmoric arguments is not an insult, but a descriptive."

Do you see the fingerprint of sophistry? When RevJP does it it is descriptive, when I do it it is rude and insulting. Me thinks the gentleman protests too much.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7000 Location: USA

Perhaps you are right, and perhaps those quotes also came from much earlier posts and I've had a spiritual awakening since. Perhaps even two wrongs make a right - that is the logic you are using is it not?

Also, perhaps the quotes in context are not insulting but entirely accurate. But let's review your review shall we?