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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: |
Seriously, how many times are people going to have to point out that Islam now is just as old as Christianity was during the Crusades?
They're just going through their extrovert stage, people! That ridiculous tradition you adhere to did the same thing! I mean, are you proud of everything you did when you were a teenager? Because that's basically where they are right now. If the world was as technologically advanced during the Crusades as the world is today, silly Christians would be doing the same thing Muslims are now! Well, if there was a much larger much more established religion to do so with at the time, any way.
Christianity got lucky that they were the guys in charge during their teenage years. Islam got the short end of the stick, they got screwed over when they were toddlers. |
This may be the case, but I don't think this excuses them at all. We can't just lower our standards for them and say stuff like, "It's ok that Muslims oppress women. They can't help it because they haven't reached our level of social development and civilization." The bottom line is that it's not ok that they oppress women and have no separation between church and state and no concept of democracy. I agree that there are reaons WHY they are so far behind, but those reasons don't really matter.
The bottom line is that they do oppress women, they don't believe in democracy, and they also don't have any concept of separation between church and state. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5846
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | This may be the case, but I don't think this excuses them at all. |
Of course it doesn't, that's not what I was saying. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | This may be the case, but I don't think this excuses them at all. |
Of course it doesn't, that's not what I was saying. |
Ok, fair enough. In that case I agree with your point that the historical context of Islam has certainly influenced where they are right now.
I'd also like to see a good argument from a Christian explaining why Christianity is a more legitimate religion than Islam. From where I'm sitting, each one of them has exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of God, and each has the exact same evidence supporting the idea that said God supports their religion over the other. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | I'd also like to see a good argument from a Christian explaining why Christianity is a more legitimate religion than Islam. From where I'm sitting, each one of them has exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of God, and each has the exact same evidence supporting the idea that said God supports their religion over the other. |
You are not going to find two different arguments for the existence of God from a Muslim or a Christian as both worship and beleive in the same God. You should know this P. The God of Abraham is worshiped by both...
It is the understanding of that God and His treatment of His creation that differs. Islam rejects the most documented event of antiquity... the death of Christ... and this is because the Koran states that Christ was not crucified. Now, with that said... the resurrection of Christ is a statement of faith... but His death is not. To state the two are equivolant is rather... um... insulting to Christians and ignorance of what they (Muslims) do and do not beleive. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6772
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | I'd also like to see a good argument from a Christian explaining why Christianity is a more legitimate religion than Islam. From where I'm sitting, each one of them has exactly the same amount of evidence for the existence of God, and each has the exact same evidence supporting the idea that said God supports their religion over the other. |
You are not going to find two different arguments for the existence of God from a Muslim or a Christian as both worship and beleive in the same God. You should know this P. The God of Abraham is worshiped by both... |
Sure, so I'd like to see you guys join forces and give us atheists a piece of concrete physical evidence that proves the existence of God.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
It is the understanding of that God and His treatment of His creation that differs. Islam rejects the most documented event of antiquity... the death of Christ... and this is because the Koran states that Christ was not crucified. Now, with that said... the resurrection of Christ is a statement of faith... but His death is not. To state the two are equivolant is rather... um... insulting to Christians and ignorance of what they (Muslims) do and do not beleive. |
Let's just assume for a second that Christ was indeed crucified and that the Koran is wrong about this. All that this means is that the Koran contains a factual error, which isn't a very big deal at all considering that it was written by humans who screw things up all the time.
Certainly the Bible also contains factual errors. There are many versions of the Bible, and they disagree on all sorts of issues, so SOME of the Bibles out there definitely contains an error.
In other words, what you have given is not an argument proving that Christianity is a more legitimate religion and a better interpretation of God's will than Islam. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3111
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Sure, so I'd like to see you guys join forces and give us atheists a piece of concrete physical evidence that proves the existence of God. |
And what would you require? We have been around and around on this issue. We have talked about how, using only acceptable methodology... is not acceptable... so, what would you say was?
| Quote: | | Let's just assume for a second that Christ was indeed crucified and that the Koran is wrong about this. |
and we 'assume' this based on the mountains of extant writings supporting this assumption of course. 
| Quote: | | All that this means is that the Koran contains a factual error, which isn't a very big deal at all considering that it was written by humans who screw things up all the time. |
No... actually, this is a central theme in the Koran. Muslims will give so much when it comes to Christ... except for the central reason for His coming. They admit He was virgin born, lived a sinless life, performed many great miracles... but will leave out the centrality of His mission on earth. It isn't that it was some minor typo as you are inferring here... this is a crucial element of their doctrine. Every single book of the New Testament is wrong if they are right... and their entire faith is wrong if the New Testament is right. I think you are trying to trivialize this issue.
| Quote: | Certainly the Bible also contains factual errors. There are many versions of the Bible, and they disagree on all sorts of issues, so SOME of the Bibles out there definitely contains an error.
In other words, what you have given is not an argument proving that Christianity is a more legitimate religion and a better interpretation of God's will than Islam. |
Again... one denies the most documented event from antiquity... the other supports it. |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | Trinity,
Islam teaches that non-believers are controlled by Satan. And Christians many times say that Muslims are controlled by Satan.
Maybe someone else reading this will ponder that for a couple minutes....
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Does Satan control anyone?
Yes he may influence people, but if he CONTROLS them, controls their actions, where does that leave the concept of the omnipotence of God.
Could you please provide evidence to substantiate that claim, because Im not so sure that is what Islam teaches. Either way, enlighten me! |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5846
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Again... one denies the most documented event from antiquity... the other supports it. |
Where did people get this idea? That the crucifixion is the most documented event from antiquity? The only direct accounts weren't written down for ~30+ years, and there's only four of them.
So who came up with the idea that the crucifixion is the most documented event from antiquity? |
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