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Grace
Goldfish
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 57
Location: writing and writing and writing!!!
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 Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: Godly music ?!?!?!? |
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I just recently went to a Bill Gothard seminar, for those of you who don't know, Mr Gothard is the founder of ATI, advanced training institute of basic life principles. Mr Gothard said a lot of things, but something really caught my attention.
He said that music with a distinctive beat was evil (more or less)
Now I know that heavy rock music is definitely evil, but what about other "slight " rock music? Or any music with a beat for that matter?
Is there any "Godly standards" for music? I am really confused. 
I don't listen to a lot of "popular bands" despite my age  , I prefer Keith Green and Annie Herring (and some messianic stuff) also classical.
But that is my choice,I sure don't expect anyone else to conform to that!
The trouble is, according to ATI's standard, some of that would be considered "ungodly", is there anyone out there who has thought about this much?
Thankyou
Grace
_________________
British diplomat, orator and writer Edmond Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
hear hear.
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7001
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Grace, thanks for the post. I've been trying to remember the name Bill Gothard and ATI for weeks now and I couldn't place it.
I attended an ATI seminar ages ago.
As for what he has to say about music:
| Quote: | | He said that music with a distinctive beat was evil (more or less) |
Unfortunately, I think the point Bill was trying to make has been refined to an erroneous POV. His original assertion was regarding music and the emotional/mental responses it encourages. According to him, heavy beats create an increased (aggrivated) emotional response which puts the spirit out of balance (think: Be still and know God...)
I don't agree with Mr. Gothard that any type of music is inherently evil. I think it is subjective to the individual and completely dependent upon lyrics and the 'effect' the music has on the individual.
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1799
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Godly music ?!?!?!? |
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| Grace wrote: | | Now I know that heavy rock music is definitely evil... |
Really? I don't know that.
Agreed Rev, music has no inherent qualities, it's our perception of it.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Godly music ?!?!?!? |
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| admin wrote: | | Grace wrote: | | Now I know that heavy rock music is definitely evil... |
Really? I don't know that.
Agreed Rev, music has no inherent qualities, it's our perception of it. |
I agree; heavy rock music can be very creative; you can't just condemn it all.
As for the inherent evil of music, what about rap music involving cop killing and stuff like that? Isn't that evil?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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45degreeN
King Kong
Joined: 02 Aug 2005
Posts: 2653
Location: Salem Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:35 am Post subject: |
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You must have not read the previous post, it is not the beat per se but the context it has with lyrics and such.
I refrain from using the "evil" as a descriptor for such things. While there is a great deal of anger and acting out within those Rap "songs", I doubt the source is evil just another fallen human benefitting from the anger of others. Certainly not the most wonderful music to listen to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| dim12trav wrote: |
I refrain from using the "evil" as a descriptor for such things. While there is a great deal of anger and acting out within those Rap "songs", I doubt the source is evil just another fallen human benefitting from the anger of others. Certainly not the most wonderful music to listen to. |
I would argue that if advocating the murder of police officers is not evil, then nothing is...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1799
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: |
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P1 - we're talking about different things. One is the inherent quality of music, which is defined by our perception. IE: there is no inherent quality.
The other is lyric content. We are talking about music, you are talking about lyric content.
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6271
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | He said that music with a distinctive beat was evil (more or less) |
I guess my music is doomed, seeing as I mostly focus on the drums to begin with (example).
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| i like drums...and i love music... |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7001
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Admin wrote: | | Agreed Rev, music has no inherent qualities, it's our perception of it. |
Agreed. I would add that it is not just our perception, but also our reception of said music.
Gothard's point originally was the unbalanced beat/melody of some music causes distress in the body and soul, producing an aggrivated effect which subjugates the listener's focus on God and the ability to feel the stirring of the Spirit. Truly he has a point, but I doubt it is a univerally applicable point. In my case it holds true, some music just makes me all twiterpated...
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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okieguitarman
Little Hamster
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 75
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Godly music ?!?!?!? |
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| Grace wrote: | I just recently went to a Bill Gothard seminar, for those of you who don't know, Mr Gothard is the founder of ATI, advanced training institute of basic life principles. Mr Gothard said a lot of things, but something really caught my attention.
He said that music with a distinctive beat was evil (more or less)
Now I know that heavy rock music is definitely evil, but what about other "slight " rock music? Or any music with a beat for that matter?
Is there any "Godly standards" for music? I am really confused.
I don't listen to a lot of "popular bands" despite my age , I prefer Keith Green and Annie Herring (and some messianic stuff) also classical.
But that is my choice,I sure don't expect anyone else to conform to that!
The trouble is, according to ATI's standard, some of that would be considered "ungodly", is there anyone out there who has thought about this much?
Thankyou
Grace |
Mr.Gothard can keep his legalistic view of music.There is no evil note of music or evil beat[time]of music.The power is in the words used in combination with the music.
Jesus created music and left His numerical stamp all over it.The numbers 3-7-12 are dominating forces in music.
7 notes in a major scale
3 notes make a major chord [1-3-5 notes of a major scale]
12 notes in a chromatic scale of music.
3 chords are used for the foundation of most songs.
Music IS NOT inheritantly evil but a very powerful tool that can be used for evil in the wrong hands.
Mr.Gothard is just showing his ignorance of what music is really about.He must choose to ignore Psalm 150 and 1 Chronicles chapter 25.
King David was an accomplished harp player and was known to dance unto the Lord God.
Maybe Mr.Gothard might be surrounded by Pentacostals in heaven who definitely understand how to praise the Lord! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | P1 - we're talking about different things. One is the inherent quality of music, which is defined by our perception. IE: there is no inherent quality.
The other is lyric content. We are talking about music, you are talking about lyric content. |
Ok, sure. But in terms of lyrical content, do you agree that some music (such as cop-killer rap) can be evil?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1799
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yes.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8175
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Now, lyrical content aside, can a tune be inherently evil? I'd say no, but some far-Eastern music is pretty discordant and sounds very offensive to the Western ear.
It might evoka a wince, but I still wouldn't say that it's evil.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6271
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Noisecore is inherently evil.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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