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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:17 am Post subject: Re: we are not animals |
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| Fake wrote: | | The simple fact is: We are animals (belonging to the mammalian branch of the animal world). We are a completley different species with completley different abilities, capabilities, and traits from many other animals. Our closest genetic relatives in the animal world are apes - wich are social creatures, living and working in groups, male with female, established hiearchy, etc. |
I used to believe this too, when I believed in evolution. But if we examine this more closely, you will find that the idea of the genetic "link" between us and apes is based on a single item blood test. But why stop at blood? If we compare the active chemical in the human thyroid, we see the closest comparison being in that of sheep. Is this the closest "link"?If we go then to amino acids, particularly the cytochrome c, we find that rattle snakes are related closer to humans than to another reptile and human being are related closer to the Peking duck than another mammal! Let's move on to hemoglobin. You find the the complex molocules exactly the same in humans and earthworms, clams, some insects and some bacteria. Another relation? No. How do we explain such complex molocules happening in such varied species being exactly the same? Chance? This is ruled out using simple statistical probability. I would say a Master Creator using intelligent design.
The reason scientists stop at blood testing is because the case for genetic relationship falls flat.
The next argument is homology, that species looking similar are related. This one's ease. Compare the shape of a large fish and a dolphin. Both have tubular bodies, fins, etc. Are they related? Of course not. This too falls flat.
These are the propaganda stories I was raised with in public school. A clear agenda emerges. The removal of God from every aspect of life. To what benefit is this motive? The allowance of moral relativism? We don't want to go there!! 
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: we are not animals |
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| Ron wrote: |
I used to believe this too |
So what are we then? Vegetables?
Of course not, we're animals.
You might not like the idea of being compared to a rat or a pig, nor would I. But that doesn't mean we're not animals.
Fake
_________________
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
“If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion.” |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 2:21 pm Post subject: the point gentlemen... |
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The point gentlemen, is not Animal, Vegatable, or mineral, it is the capacity for intelligence, thought (abstract to be more definitive), compassion, love, reason, etc.
A dog, lizard, eggplant, rock, or ape does not have this capacity. We have instinctual traits, and human instinctive traits are vastly similar to those of apes - who are our closest genetic cousins. That does not mean we are evolved from apes, it means we share like characteristics which we do not share with others (okay, I guess I should include aquatic mamals as well).
One part of those instinctual traits is the drive to pick mates with characteristics which will benefit the better of the species - intelligence, strength, etc. - in the case of humans it is arguable that kindness, asthetic value, and compassion are some of those traits as well.
Personally, I have never believed fully in the Theory of Evoltion. I do believe in the process of evolution, but I have always felt that the 'spark of life' had to have come from another source - a higher power if you will.
Does the "big Bang Theory" have merit? Yes, in as much as it could have been the tool used to create the world. Do I believe that humanity evolved from a single-cell organism that just up and apeared in the primordial ooze? No, not in and of itself, but Genesis clearly states that God formed Adam from the dust of the ground. God CREATED man on the 6th day, GOD made Adam and then Eve, after the 7th day.
I posited the idea that evolutionary processes would blend in rather nicely with creation. Why is it so hard for people to accept the idea that God would use processes such as these to do His work? How else would these processes be existant if not by the hand of the Creator? Why could God not use a big bang to create the heavens and the earth?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2003 8:48 am Post subject: Re: we are not animals |
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| Fake wrote: |
The simple fact is: We are animals (belonging to the mammalian branch of the animal world). We are a completley different species with completley different abilities, capabilities, and traits from many other animals. Our closest genetic relatives in the animal world are apes - wich are social creatures, living and working in groups, male with female, established hiearchy, etc.
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I think it depends on who you ask. To those that believe that Man are relatives to apes, then we are animals. To others who believe that we are the crowning effort and a marvel of design with similarities yet most unique to the rest of all species on Earth that are living and have ever lived.
| Quote: |
Animal: a living organism that is distinguished from plants by independent movement and responsive sense organs
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We are also distinguished from all the other organisms by our metabolism. Did you know that Man has the longest metabolism of any animal? In other words, we have the longest lengh of life.
I've read research where the metabolism of various animals were compared on an even playing field. A fair assessment of metabolism is heartbeat rate. Yes, size matters. In other words, small animals tend to run on a faster clock while large animals run at the tick of a slower clock. But if a relationship is run between life expectancy and heartbeat rate, all animals die at about their one billionth heartbeat. Guess how old a human being has to be to arrive at the one billionth heartbeat level? Oh, at about 25 years old. At one billion heartbeats humans are at the prime of their life and still ticking (pun intended) while animals have maxed out on their age!
If humans are the product of Nature, what accounts that humans can continue to live beyond the clock of the rest of Animalkind? Researchers that believe that Man is just another animal on this planet continue to be baffled at the discrepancy.
Man operates at the proper speed for his size. His heartbeat is about that of other animals of similar weight. He is faster than the heartbeat of larger animals and slower than the heartbeat of smaller animals. Yet his maximum age is about 115 years - which means his maximum number of heart clicks is about 4.35 billion! Occasional humans can live beyond 4 billion heart clicks! But no one who considers humans as just another kind of animal knows why! But aren't we comforted? 
According to Genesis, Man originally was meant to leave life on Earth with the prospect of it never ending. But Man blew it and began dying. After Man's fall, his life expectancy was measured in the hundreds of years - according to the first chapters of Genesis - and it has been in decline ever since, with a noticable small (in comparison) upturn in the last century in certain countries. But if Man was indeed a speical creation which was different from all the animals and endowed with a special vitality which, even rundown as we are now we still show hidden evidence of what we once were - the implications are enormous! We are far than just another animal species on the planet.
Something to consider.
Peace
PS: My calculations.
Average human hearbeat rate = 72 per minute.
72 times 60 (the minutes in an hour) = 4,320 beats per hour
4,320 times 24 (the hours in a day) = 103,680 beats per day
103,680 times 365.25 (the days in a year) = 37,869,120 beats per year
37,869,120 times 76.13 (the average human life expenctancy in the USA) = 2,882,976,105.6 beats in an average lifetime in USA |
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Fake
Tiger
Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 862
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2003 11:18 am Post subject: Re: we are not animals |
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| Ryck wrote: |
We are also distinguished from all the other organisms by our metabolism. Did you know that Man has the longest metabolism of any animal? In other words, we have the longest lengh of life. |
Huh? We live the longest of any animal? Not the last time I checked around  Tortosies, clams, and many other species live longer than humans We live as long as we do because we have learnt how to treat, and often cure, simple sicknesses that would otherwise kill us. we live sheltered in sturdy houses, protected rom the harsh nature, cold, heat, sun, rain et c. That's why we live longer than most other animals, not because we're any differently constructed than other animals, in design to live longer than it's possible for other animals to acheive. longest metabolism, is that the same as the slowest? if so, re-research your claims
_________________
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
“If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion.” |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 8:10 am Post subject: Re: we are not animals |
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| Fake wrote: |
Huh? We live the longest of any animal? Not the last time I checked around Tortosies, clams, and many other species live longer than humans
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It's a good point. I knew someone was going to mention that. That's why I included that with all other factors being equal Man does live the longest.
And when it comes to "animals", since mammals interest us most I've confined the numbers to some mammalian types. Do reptiles and bivalve mollusks have the same quality of life as mammalian types? I don't believe they do but I'm sure opinions differ.
| Quote: |
We live as long as we do because we have learnt how to treat, and often cure, simple sicknesses that would otherwise kill us. we live sheltered in sturdy houses, protected rom the harsh nature, cold, heat, sun, rain et c. That's why we live longer than most other animals, not because we're any differently constructed than other animals, in design to live longer than it's possible for other animals to acheive. longest metabolism, is that the same as the slowest? if so, re-research your claims |
We do much to shorten our life with harmful narcotics and addictions, poor sanitation and living conditions, famines, unsafe and immoral sexual practices, wars and crimminal activities, utter stupidity, etc.
Remember that in early times, animals lived in the dwellings of humans. But that didn't mean that those animals lived as long as the humans did. When a hen stopped laying eggs, she became next evening's dinner. Under the best of conditions a cow maxes out at 30 years of age. And while captive animals do live longer, in some cases they are in poorer health than those in the wild because they basically lead a seditary lifestyle and tend toward being obese - which is why they are giving carefully controlled diets. On the other hand, humans generally eat anything they want and enjoy a multitude of technical conveniences. Our "captivity" to conveniences, with certain exceptions, helps us live longer.
Peace |
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