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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: BC
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 Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: |
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This conversation has been brought to you by yet another instance of the public being inundated with contradictory information so that nobody knows what to believe anymore...
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7003
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I feel sorry for folks like that. Anyone who has that much pent up hatred towards our soldiers has got to have some other issues in their life. I, as one who professes to be a Christian, am ashamed of his conduct. I would not be surprised to find out he is one of those folks out there protesting the funerals of soldiers... it is disgusting. |
I'm sorry, I do not completely agree.
Consider it me assuming things (I know I am the biggest finger waggler when people assume) but...
I don't know TSS or P123 from Adam, I know them on here, but not thier lives. It is my assumption that TSS is either a vet or related or close to a vet or soldier who lost his/her life in combat. With that assumption I can understand his ire.
I just wish I could stress the fact that what they (TSS, P and the gang) think they know is not the whole story. They think Bush lied because he knew there were no WMD's, that is simply untrue, all the best intelligence determined their were. We didn't find any. I know, he knows it, they all know it, that doesn't make him a liar, it makes him a victim of bad information (and trust me the people supplying that information paid for it).
| Quote: | | wow that is soooo partisan it is almost hypocritical jp...you say clinton did nothing...then defend bush sr. for not doing enough by blaming other...like he had no choice...you do that here... |
Partisan? No, just the facts. Saddam didn't take power and keep it because he was nice, and he didn't suddenly start killing his people the day after Bush took office. As for gassing them... well that did happen later, before that he simply had them shot in the head in the middle of the streets while thier families watched. You think the terrorists kidnapping reporters and beheading them is something new? Who do you think gave them the freeking idea?
| Quote: | Quote:
All that loss of life could have been stopped if we had been allowed to continue on to Bahgdad. But NO. Bush Sr. had to capitulate to the left side of the aisle and pull us out.
wow...see? |
See? I see the truth. We were there. We were on the ground ready to go. The entire military leadership pushed for us to go, we knew who and what he was and we knew we could fix the problem permanently. Bush Sr. was on the edge of saying go for it, and the pressure he got from the left side of the aisle made him change his mind. That is an idiot mistake I fully blame him for. He knew better and he buckled to the pressure of the morons who keep perpetuating this misery.
| Quote: | | what did 911 have to do with iraq?...NOTHING!!!as already been proven... |
Riiiiiggghhhhtttt.
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.look jp...e are talking of something tht bush said would happen...it didn't... |
We are talking about something he beleived would happen because the entire intelligence community told him it would happen. He wasn't on the ground in Iraq to confirm it with his own eyes and the people who were saw the evidence which they thought were strong indications of massive pileups of WMD. His mistake I have to admit is pushing that part of the argument as strong as he did. He made the whole situation all about WMD when the truth is that WMD were only a part of the problem.
| Quote: | | and some of what he said(the connect). |
If you say so.
| Quote: | | but if two of the things he said have been shown not to be true and he knew so at the time. |
No. He didn't actually.
| Quote: | | .p38 made me realize my comment was wrong and out of line...it was retracted...now here comes the accuser of the brethern...pointing it out again...giving me the big stomp down about something i have already recanted... |
Was this the retraction?
| Quote: | please...i never called you a fooling nazi...  ...and i have a small clue...btw...  |
or this?
| Quote: | | well said...good and true...i retract the statment |
Or was it this?
| Quote: | | jeeprers creepers...i have been ordered to "apologize" for saying the u.s. service personnel are worse than nazi's Rolling Eyes ...which is not exactly what i said...i said those who are involved in the war now that we know the truth are worse than nazi's and mean it...but none the less... |
Or maybe this:
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to show my submissiveness...i am sorry if my..."opinion's"... made anyone feel like a murderer....and i apologize for sounding so harsh(though what i said was true)....
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You quoted a verse about granting forgiveness. Do you have any regarding seeking forgiveness? You stated:
| Quote: | i have already been ordered by my church to apologize for the statement and granted my intial apology was not a sincere one...but later in the conversation...p38 made me realize my comment was wrong and out of line...it was retracted..
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You offered an insincere aplogy, and a retraction. No sincere apology for comments which most clearly hurt and offended me and probably Trinity1, and you want to quote scripture to us about forgiving when someone repents? Where's the repentance? Is this it?
| Quote: | | and i apologize for sounding so harsh(though what i said was true).... |
I was....
Ya know what? Nevermind. It doesn't matter really. I know what I know, you disagree, so be it. It isn't worth it to me to get deeper into this mess. Y'all enjoy your thread.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | This conversation has been brought to you by yet another instance of the public being inundated with contradictory information so that nobody knows what to believe anymore... |
Yes indeed... instead of being fed a steady diet of leftist drivel... their ideas finally get challenged by people who have actually been there and have seen first hand what is going on... have seen the news... and had a real hard time reconciling what was in the news verses what I knew what was going on. But... when challenged with facts and cogent arguments ... no response other than 'you are worse than a Nazi'.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | Nice Post Rev... you at least tok the time to address TSS'es drivel. I think the best approach for his non-senseical, ignorant, bigotry of anything decent is to simply ignore him.
I had the mis-pleasure of listening to that Chaves fella this morning at the UN... the Bush Administration's approach... don't even dignify his characterizations of our President with a response. So, they must be reading this thread as I chose yesterday to simply ignore him after reading his ‘feigned’ apology… it was pathetic.
I feel sorry for folks like that. Anyone who has that much pent up hatred towards our soldiers has got to have some other issues in their life. I, as one who professes to be a Christian, am ashamed of his conduct. I would not be surprised to find out he is one of those folks out there protesting the funerals of soldiers... it is disgusting. |
and as a CHRISTian i am ashamed of yours for having part in it...i would not be surprised if you were one of those soldier who rapes a woman then murders her and her family to cover it up...it is disgusting...since we are making judgements...and you show your ignorance...when you make judgements you know nothing about... |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Ana wrote: | | This conversation has been brought to you by yet another instance of the public being inundated with contradictory information so that nobody knows what to believe anymore... |
Yes indeed... instead of being fed a steady diet of leftist drivel... their ideas finally get challenged by people who have actually been there and have seen first hand what is going on... have seen the news... and had a real hard time reconciling what was in the news verses what I knew what was going on. But... when challenged with facts and cogent arguments ... no response other than 'you are worse than a Nazi'. |
oh please stop the mindless blather...you have not presented any facts...just crap you can't prove to justify you evil deeds of satanic wickedness....do you really think you in all your high holy stupidity filled with nonsense are the only one here who has seen iraq?...
i will say what the hell i want to about this war i have the right and stood up for the rights of others here to do the same and so when some little smart mouth like you comes along with his ignorant trash i will call it like it is...and if you can't handle it...GOOD...
and the only hate here is yours...you hate the truth and you hate to be challenged and that is obvious...you think your e8 rank goes outside the armed services....HA!!!...you are just power tripping on authority you don't have!!!...so wallow in your on puke and lies...but don't expect those of us who see you are full of it to say poor little tri is right when you are nt...i am out of here!!! |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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and while i am on a roll...let me finish...this blasted war has cost me more than probably most anyone here (including you!!!) so your loud mouth ignorant rantings of lopside stupidity are the most vile crap i have ever heard vomited out...
and you propagating nothing more than taking other beautiful young people over there so they can be murdered for absolutely nothing...for a lie!!!... so excuse me for not bending over to your nastiness...like you gave so much...like you paid a big price...like you alone have all the hurt and all the lose and can determine who should say what about it..why don't you actually shut up for a change and listen to people instead of your constant flapping about a war that is wrong and on top of everything else...after the last shovel of dirt has been slung to cover the hole that now holds of a one of the finest people whose foot has ever been placed on the face of this earth...we find out our lose was for nothing...nothing...absolutely nothing...but a lie... |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | hatred of armed conflict would be better |
I can respect that. Most of us who have been invovled in such have a similar hatred. In fact, I would hazard a guess to say that all sane caring people who have had the misfortune to fight share a similar dislike of the whole idea.
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Voting for Bush the second time around sure is a funny way of showing one's hatred for armed conflict...
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Some of us however have had the misfortune to witness first hand what happens when one doesn't fight. Some of us struggle with trying to decide which nightmare is the worst - the rememberance of killing others and sending commrades in harms way, or the remembrance of sitting on our hands and watching others die because of it.
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This is the old "You shouldn't appease evil dictators; just look at what happened when the allies tried to appease Hitler before WWII." argument. There is no comparing Saddam to Hitler. Hitler had real power. Saddam had NO power after the first Gulf War. Everyone who knows anything about nuclear weapons knows that Saddam had exactly no chance of making nuclear weapons. He simply didn't have the resources.
I happen to know something about nuclear weapons, and I can go into greater details about this if you are interested, but there is NO way Saddam could have built an atomic bomb.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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P#'s wrote | Quote: | Voting for Bush the second time around sure is a funny way of showing one's hatred for armed conflict...
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People did not vote for bush the 2nd time....he did not hnestly win that election...
_________________
Proverbs 27:17
17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another. |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Trinity 1 wrote | Quote: | 'you are worse than a Nazi'.
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Take a google moment and look up Godwin's law if you havent already...you might find it interesting.
But i would like to point out that not all who were there(Iraq) agree with the war, especially after the WMD issues have been proven. Attacking Iraq was a mistake, a mistake we will all pay for now and a long time into the future...dont be fooled yerself or think that everything warshington says is true.
Could be the US runs out of money fightin a war we shouldnt have started....who will take care of us then?
_________________
Proverbs 27:17
17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: | P#'s wrote | Quote: | Voting for Bush the second time around sure is a funny way of showing one's hatred for armed conflict...
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People did not vote for bush the 2nd time....he did not hnestly win that election... |
Huh? You mean he did not actually get more votes than any other President in American history... that Kerry actually won the election?
What are you talking about?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| IronSharpensIron wrote: | Trinity 1 wrote | Quote: | 'you are worse than a Nazi'.
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Take a google moment and look up Godwin's law if you havent already...you might find it interesting. |
Regardless if one is inclined to categorize their debating opponent as a Nazi or not... name calling on this board is prohibited... period.
With that said, I take special offense to this as it really is personal. I have friends in Iraq right now. I spent 11 months 8 days and 7 hours in that country myself... and to top this all off I had a Grandfather blown out of his foxhole while fighting Nazi's... the other... fighting Japan in a Pacific. I know the personal sacrifice involved with defending freedom. My family.... my fathers only brother (sibling) was killed while in the Army... soooooo... when someone starts criticizing our soldiers and comparing their service to that of those who indiscriminately killed innocent millions through the most cruel and degrading means... you can bet I'm going to take personally... and get just a smidgen pissed off at their unadulterated stupidly, ignorance, and inability to at least... at a minimum... apply any amount of proportionality to anything dealing wit this subject.
| Quote: | | But i would like to point out that not all who were there(Iraq) agree with the war, especially after the WMD issues have been proven. |
And the point is... you aren't going to get everyone to agree just about anything... let alone the war.
| Quote: | | Attacking Iraq was a mistake, a mistake we will all pay for now and a long time into the future...dont be fooled yerself or think that everything warshington says is true. |
I believe everything Washington says is true??? Oh come on now... this is simply a ridiculous statement. I disagree with and have a hard time believing anything coming out of Washington DC...
| Quote: | | Could be the US runs out of money fightin a war we shouldnt have started....who will take care of us then? |
Um... perhaps it ought to be this way... we take care of ourselves. Dependency on a government is not only dangerous... it is foolish. (I'll even admit I receive a retirement check every month from the government)... but I am not dependent upon them for anything. This is where perhaps your and my political ideology diverge... I believe DC is dependent upon us... not the other way around.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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IronSharpensIron
House Cat
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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trinity1 wrote | Quote: | when someone starts criticizing our soldiers and comparing their service to that of those who indiscriminately killed innocent millions through the most cruel and degrading means... you can bet I'm going to take personally... and get just a smidgen pissed off at their unadulterated stupidly, ignorance, and inability to at least... at a minimum... apply any amount of proportionality to anything dealing wit this subject.
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Trinity1 wrote | Quote: | you aren't going to get everyone to agree just about anything... let alone the war.
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Based on your other posts in other threads i see you do believe at least quite a bit of what washington puts out.
As for your patriotism..havent we all had people serve and were or are hurt? You think I dont have friends and family there? what does it have to do with the issue? If we deal and act on emotions instead of reasoning all we have is dead soldiers. A travesty.
_________________
Proverbs 27:17
17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one man sharpens another. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7003
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | this blasted war has cost me more than probably most anyone here (including you!!!) |
Probably most anyone, but certainly NOT everyone. 
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
With that said, I take special offense to this as it really is personal. I have friends in Iraq right now. I spent 11 months 8 days and 7 hours in that country myself... and to top this all off I had a Grandfather blown out of his foxhole while fighting Nazi's... the other... fighting Japan in a Pacific. I know the personal sacrifice involved with defending freedom. My family.... my fathers only brother (sibling) was killed while in the Army |
My opinion on the matter is that people should always support their troops. These are people who actually leave their families and put their necks out there, risking to make the ultimate sacrifice for their country.
That being said, I also think that one of the BEST ways of supporting one's troops is to make sure that they are sent into combat ONLY as a last resort, and ONLY when the cause is just and good. I don't think that the Iraq war meets either of these critera.
WWII was a just war.
So was Korea.
So was the first Gulf War.
The second Gulf War is not just; it was a big mistake in many ways, and it is terrible that so many people (American troops included) have been injured and killed for what ended up being a very poor cause based on very flimsy evidence and justification.
Basically, I think that supporting the American troops over in Iraq necessarily means OPPOSING the Bush administration that put them over there for bad reasons. I have no idea why Rumsfeld still has his job.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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