 |
Bible-Discussion.com
Private Bible Studies and Christian Fellowship Available - Ask Nobby
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| FFT wrote: | | But no, I don't believe that Satan calls on women to be preachers (would be rather difficult to simultaneously believe that and that Satan doesn't even exist). |
yeah...i can see where such a thing would be difficult...  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6885
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
FFT, I don't think Paul ever once intimated that women cannot preach.
I understand fully you are referring to his admonition for women to be silent in church. But I am confident that you have taken this to contextual misunderstanding, similar the to the whole 'head covering' topic.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | FFT, I don't think Paul ever once intimated that women cannot preach.
I understand fully you are referring to his admonition for women to be silent in church. But I am confident that you have taken this to contextual misunderstanding, similar the to the whole 'head covering' topic. |
That must mean women must preach outside...
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6064
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | FFT, I don't think Paul ever once intimated that women cannot preach.
I understand fully you are referring to his admonition for women to be silent in church. But I am confident that you have taken this to contextual misunderstanding, similar the to the whole 'head covering' topic. |
In church?
1 Timothy
2:9 Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing,
2:10 but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God.
2:11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness.
2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.
2:13 For Adam was formed first and then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, because she was fully deceived, fell into transgression.
2:15 But she will be delivered through childbearing, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with self-control.
As to authority, the word used is "αὐθεντέω," "to assume a stance of independent authority, give orders to, dictate to"
Hell, I don't need to convince you. What's wrong with the argument here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6885
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
FFT, you said:
In church?
and I had extremely clearly stated:
FFT, I don't think Paul ever once intimated that women cannot preach.
I don't really understand your confusion. DId you read something in that statement that I had not written?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6064
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | FFT, you said:
In church?
and I had extremely clearly stated:
FFT, I don't think Paul ever once intimated that women cannot preach.
I don't really understand your confusion. DId you read something in that statement that I had not written? |
What, are you blind?
| RevJP wrote: | | I understand fully you are referring to his admonition for women to be silent in church. |
| FFT wrote: | In church?
[verses saying women shouldn't have authority over man, with no mention of whether it's just in church or ever] |
Did someone else write that, or did you just forget, or are you just jumping on me for any perceived mistake? Or what? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6885
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Are YOU blind?
I said: I don't think Paul ever once intimated that women cannot preach.
Did Paul say women cannot preach, or that women are to be silent in church?
Paul did not say women could not preach.
Really FFT, it IS english after all and not very big words either, you should be able to follow along.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6064
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Last I checked, preaching was a form of teaching.
If it wasn't, would it be necessary? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6885
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
 IN CHURCH, IN CHURCH, IN CHURCH...
I never said IN CHURCH, did I?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6064
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | IN CHURCH, IN CHURCH, IN CHURCH...
I never said IN CHURCH, did I? |
| RevJP wrote: | | I understand fully you are referring to his admonition for women to be silent in church. |
I was pointing out that women, according to Paul, aren't supposed to teach anywhere, much less in Church.
And you're obsessing over what you assert you didn't say when you clearly did. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| FFT wrote: | If you're doing it wrong? And since you're not doing as the Good Book says you must be being influenced by Satan, there's simply no other explanation.
(The Satan of the Bible is not the Satan that Christians are taught about.  Still doesn't exist, but he's not the "ULTIMATE EVIL!" enemy Christians make him out to be. Even in the Bible he's basically just a figure that judges humans for God) |
interesting....
I feel that Satan is God's right or left hand man. The one who weilds the rod. Like in Job, He is directed to afflict Job, Like the fire that rains on Sodom and Gomorrah, or the angel of death that passes over on passover.
God sends Satan to do a job. And when he's on a mission, can one hide from him?
where the heck are you coming up with this stuff FFT?
LOLOL...
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 6885
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Let me simplify this for you FFT, perhaps you are suffering from a lack of oxygen or something because you are obviously having trouble using your brain.
I pointed out that I don't think that Paul ever once intimated that women cannot preach.
I pointed out that I understood you were aware that Paul admonished women to be silent in church.
There is a distinct difference between speaking or not speaking IN CHURCH, and preaching.
One can preach anywhere, in the home, on the phone, on the computer, on the street, etc. etc. etc. That fact is not touched by Paul's admonition.
Then you come in and say:
| Quote: |
I was pointing out that women, according to Paul, aren't supposed to teach anywhere, much less in Church. |
Which is completely wrong. Never does Paul say that.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6064
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | I was pointing out that women, according to Paul, aren't supposed to teach anywhere, much less in Church. |
Which is completely wrong. Never does Paul say that. |
1 Timothy
1:1 From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,
1:2 to Timothy, my genuine child in the faith. Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord!
2:9 Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing,
2:10 but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God.
2:11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness.
2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.
2:13 For Adam was formed first and then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, because she was fully deceived, fell into transgression.
2:15 But she will be delivered through childbearing, if she continues in faith and love and holiness with self-control.
Note there are no qualifiers as to when women can teach or exercise authority over men. He does not allow it at all.
Remember you said this: | RevJP wrote: | | Contrary to what FFT says, women can, and are, called to teach, preach, and prophecy. |
But Paul says this:
2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.
Which is it?
| RevJP wrote: | | Let me simplify this for you FFT, perhaps you are suffering from a lack of oxygen or something because you are obviously having trouble using your brain. |
Let me make this perfectly clear: | RevJP wrote: | | I understand fully you are referring to his admonition for women to be silent in church. |
This is not what I have been referring to, so your "understanding" is wrong. I am referring to where Paul says women are not to teach and not to hold authority over men. That he insists they should remain quiet is merely flavor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6360
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
who pray tell is Jezebel?
Paul was given revelations by the Lord. Maybe he saw this prophecy. So he commands all women not to teach, that way Jezebel can't sneak in??
hmm..
Lone
covering all the entrances and exits..
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MakeShiftWings
Tadpole
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RevJP wrote: |
The reason I asked the questions I asked is simple; do you want to pastor a church or do you want to preach God's Word?
I suspect that you are using 'Pastor' as a catchall for 'preacher, evangelist, missionary, what have you'. |
Yes in a manner, I guess I'm still disifering exactly what was ment by God. No he doesnt speak to me directly...just send things my way at certain times.
| Quote: | | Preaching and teaching are different issues though. Contrary to what FFT says, women can, and are, called to teach, preach, and prophecy. If indeed you are feeling called to the Service of God, I commend you. If that call leads you to Spreading the Word of God in some fashion, I encourage you. |
Thank you, I hope that I will figure out where my place is and where God wants me to serve
_________________
Teach me to Love You...Lead me with Your light! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Make a Donation 
Usergroups 
Contact
Register
Submit Articles 
Log in to check your private messages 
