gain of oppressions

lexaboy · Tadpole Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

Isaiah 33:15
He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

Proverbs 28:16
The prince that wanteth understanding is also a great oppressor: but he that hateth covetousness shall prolong his days.

The word in question is "ma'ashaqqah". It is used as oppressions and oppressor in these only two uses of the Hebrew word in the bible.

Does this word point to the practice of tithe collecting as the 'gain of oppressions'? The word is listed alongside "ma'aser" in the Strongs concordance. God adds the 'ma' to 'asar' which is "ten" to make "tithe". God adds the same 'ma' to 'ashaq' which is the Hebrew word for "oppress" to make "ma'ashaqqah". The NIV version of the bible translates this word as "extortion". Is it really a tag that points to tithe collecting as the culprit? What other practice could fit as "the gain of oppressions". God's favour is on those who despise the collecting of so called tithes in the form of money. The tithe law was originally a food law, only dealing with crops from the land.

Is this the meaning of this word. Am I off base in my assertions? How many ministers do we have who are trained to 'despise the gain of oppressions' according to the word of God?

JohnStevenson · Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: Re: gain of oppressions

lexaboy · Tadpole Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

If adding the 'ma' to ten makes a tithe, then 'maashaqqah' has nothing in common with 'maaser'. Nothing at all. I take it that John is a Hebrew expert.

Do you have any idea what 'gain of oppressions' that God had in mind if it is not tithe collecting? Money ....not corn, oil and wine mind you. Maybe, just maybe, the burden of the tithe was on the land and not the people.

This is just my humble attempt at understanding holy writ. I do belive the primary culprit is the so called tithe that so many ministers proclaim from the pulpit.

JohnStevenson · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:00 am Post subject:

lexaboy · Tadpole Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

David was one who was called to be a ruler who was to feed God's people. Even in the New Testament Paul speaks of those who were to rule God's people. No doubt that Paul was speaking of pastors.

Strongs says that NAGIYD (Prince) can be civil, military, or religious.

Looking for other references for those who love gain we find in Isaiah 56:11-12 a reference to those definately religious folks who love gain.
"Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand (Proverbs 28:16) : they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."

These religious persons are linked to the tithe through the 'strong drink' in the next verse for the law of the tithe states that those who possess tithe money are to purchase strong drink (Deut. 14:26).

There are many reasons to despise the gain of collecting tithes because of the several links to evil, the strong drink being the first obvious link.

Why not go for what you know will gain you praise from God. Paul said he abased himself in not taking payment for his ministry. Does the scripture promise exaltation to those who abase themselves? I am not suggesting preaching for free to all. But there are many who need to abase themselves by refusing to teach tithing.

It still remains to me a plausable explanation of the word 'maashaqqah' that God had tithe collectors in mind. There are many other Hebrew words used for oppress, oppression, oppressed that do not have the 'ma' attached.

lexaboy · Tadpole Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

Simple logic dictates that if you prove that tithe collecting is an illegitimate New Testament ordinance or sacrament then you are saying that it is "extortion". This is a money word. There are many ways to show this illigitamacy. Then it should come as not suprise that this word 'maashaqqah' is in God's vocabulary.

We do not need Spock to put his fingers on God to tell us His mind. We have his word and the God given intelligence given to all men to figure it out. The NIV version calls this combination of 'maaser' and 'ashaq', extortion. Merely prove the illegitimacy of the modern tithe and logic dictates that God IS calling the practice 'extortion' in this verse in Isaiah 33.

I hope others will join the discussion and give scriptural reasons why tithing is strictly O.T. I have several reasons to show this myself. I would like to give others a crack at it first.

JohnStevenson · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:19 am Post subject:

lexaboy · Tadpole Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

First on the list of reasons to 'despise the gain' of tithe collecting. The substance of the first tithe was the goods of Sodom. There is a Sodom connection to tithing.

You will find in Genesis 14 the record of Abraham's tithe that he gave to the king of Salem, Melchisedek. This Melchisedek is the first in an order of priests which has only one other member, Jesus Christ. It is often noted by ministers that Melchisedek received a tithe and therefore Jesus receives them too. Let's take a closer look at this transaction to see if we are missing anything and maybe coming to wrong conclusions.

I will not go in depth on this except to say that for Abraham there was a zero sum gain from the spoils that were taken in a war with some marauding kings. At the begining of it all was the goods of Sodom that were taken and at the end it was the return of it all, except for the ten percent, to the king of Sodom. Abraham said, "I will not take to a shoe...". The prophet Amos covers this oath of Abraham in chapters 2 and 8 of the book of Amos. Those verses cover the greed of those who do 'take to a shoe'. This quite possibly points to those who collect tithes. The fact that the tithe was of the goods of Sodom should give many pause, I think. Add this to the negative words about greed spoken by Amos.

"For their vine is of the vine of Sodom....Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures.?" Deut 32 This 'treasures' is in the Hebrew 'owtsar' which is the storehouse of Malachi 3 fame. So what is going into God's storehouse that has its connection to the evil vine of Sodom? Could it be money?

The spoils of Sodom taken by Abraham were eaten by the men that were with him. Amos points to money as the culprit. "...because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes." Amos 2 "That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes."

In the law it is stated that you could exchange the tithe for money (silver) and purchase "wine and strong drink". Deut 14 Do the wine and strong drink come from the vine of Sodom? Why not buy the original corn, oil and wine with the money so you can feast with the other worshipers? In Isaiah 56 God says that they are greedy shepherds that do not understand who love 'strong drink'.

Greed, greed, greed. God is all around this money with words of condemnation for those who have the silver (money) in hand.

So here is a short list of reasons to 'despise the gain' of tithe collecting.
1. First tithe is of goods of Sodom.
2. Vine of Sodom is in storehouse.
3. Buy strong drink with tithe money.
4. Abraham said 'I will not take'

Those who collect tithes should not claim descendantcy from Abraham if they do not keep his oath to not 'take to a shoe'.

lone-traveler · Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:25 am Post subject:

im thinking tithes are the souls of the poor and needy.

God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

JohnStevenson · Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: The Tithe

lexaboy · Tadpole Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

In the law it is stated that you can exchange the tithe for money (Deut. 14). The tithe therefore is not money and cannot be money. God anticipates this error in several places. Jesus anticipates this error in his parable of the tares. This mates with the exchange of tithe verse in Deut. 14. Jesus says that the wheat will be brought into his barn and the tares shall be bound and burned. If you mate this with the exchange of tithe verse you have those who eat the corn (wheat) that is brought into the storehouse (barn) becoming the wheat that they eat. Those who bind the money become bound as the tares and thrown into the fire. Not a promising prospect for tithe collectors.

"Then shalt thou turn it (the tithe) into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:....Deut. 14:25

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Matt. 13:25-30

JohnStevenson · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:49 am Post subject: Re: tithe

lexaboy · Tadpole Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

Before we get into the heart of what I believe to be the greatest reason for despising the gain of tithe collecting, I would like to add this to our growing list.

5. Binding the tithe money/binding the tares

John, your point about the Hebrew word for money being silver is just the subject for the greatest reason for despising the gain of tithe collecting. I do request patience on this one. It will take a while to develop. Not all on this one post.

It is because of the prophetic nature of the Old Testament law that it behooves us to explore the notion that the exchange of the tithe for money may in some way represent the exchange of Christ for thirty pieces of silver. I have seven scriptural reasons to present to make this case.

The second reason is to my thinking the greatest. It takes a little study, a little meditating but it yields the greatest results. I'll relate the particulars in the order of my own discovery.
First reason: the tithe is called holy and was exchanged for silver
Jesus is also called holy and is holy by every meaning of the word.

Second reason: Joshua 5:12 says that the manna ceased and they began to eat of the fruit of the land. From that fruit of the land came the tithe of the land.
The manna in a great sense is a twin to the fruit of the land. They share several characteristics. The first being the primary sourse of food for the children of Israel. Secondly, they both had a suppliment of 'flesh'. Deut.12 says that they were to eat the roe and hart as the flesh to go along with the corn,oil, and wine. The manna had quail to go along with it. Thirdly, they both had a tithe measurement. Exodus 16 says that the omer of the tithe that was to be put into the pot is a tenth of an ephah. Fourthly, they both were to be put into a storage place. The tithe of the land into a storehouse, the tenth of manna into a pot.
The manna is called the bread of heaven. Jesus compared himself to this miracle bread. Would you put money into the pot instead of the manna? Why then do you put money into the storehouse instead of the fruit of the land?

We are ready then for the sixth reason for despising the gain of tithe collecting.

6. Replacing the tithe of manna (the twin to the fruit of the land) with money

You should not replace the fruit of the land with money unless you are first willing to replace the manna in the pot with money (silver) also.