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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
You source article called it cartilage... I'm very sure of that.
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I just read it again; parts of the leg were cartilage (as would be expected), and parts were bone.
Incidentally, I have found another excellent paper... Try this link.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Whales don't have legs and they never did.
And, there is not even an evolutionary reason for them to have them.
The sorting of pebbles is in accordance with natural laws instituted by a lawgiver. It is therefore the result of an intelligent design. The sorting of the pebbles proves that there is a lawful order by which this occurs and it isn't a random effect. The evo's being terrible scientists and logicians reason willy-nilly about everything. For example there isn't any sorting mechanism nor source in outer space that can provide the constituents of the earth. Does this fact convince evo's of anything? Nah.
The evo notion that everything is an accident is incredibly stupid idea don't you think?
Joman.
Ps. Whales had legs...ha ha ha ha ha.
Satan is sure getting a good laugh from the oxymoronic evo's. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | Whales don't have legs and they never did.
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You are wrong. Here are some scientific papers from peer-reviewed scientific journals containing plenty of evidence and good research. They even have pictures!
Check out this paper.
Also, check out this paper.
And there are A LOT more where that came from. There are plenty of documented cases of whales with hind limbs and other creatures with other atavisms. Here, knock yourself out:
| Quote: | Hall, B. K. (1984) "Developmental mechanisms underlying the formation of atavisms." Biol. Rev. 59: 89-124.
Hall, B. K. (1995) "Atavisms and atavistic mutations." Nature Genetics 10: 126-127.
Zembskii, V. A., and Berzin, A. A. (1961) "On the rare phenomenon of atavism in the sperm whale." Nauchnye Doklady Vysshei Shkoly. Series "Biologicheskie Nauki."
Berzin, A. A. (1972) The Sperm Whale. Pacific Scientific Research Institute of Fisheries and Oceanography. Israel Program for Scientific Translations, Jerusalem. Available from the U. S. Dept. of Commerce, National Technical Information Service. Springfield, VA.
Nemoto, T. (1963) "New records of sperm whales with protruded rudimentary hind limbs." Sci. Rep. Whales Res. Inst. No. 17.
Ogawa, R., and Kamiya, T. A. (1957) "Case of the cachalot with protruded rudimentary hind limbs." Sci. Rep. Whales Res. Inst. No. 12.
Abel, O. (1908) "Die Morphologie der Huftbeinrudimente der Cetaceen." Denkschr. Math. Naturw. Klasse Kaiserl. Aka. Wiss. Vol. 81. |
And I'm guessing that if you go through all of the bibliographies in all of those papers, you'll find EVEN MORE documented cases of whales with hind limbs, and other animals with other atavisms.
Do you believe that all of these people from all over the world and from different decades are all liars and that they are making this stuff up? Is it a massive conspiracy?
| joman wrote: |
And, there is not even an evolutionary reason for them to have them.
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Wrong again. There is a VERY good evolutionary reason for why whales have DNA for legs in their genomes. It's because they evolved from land creatures that DID have legs, and the DNA for those legs became inactive, but it's still there. Every now and then it is fully expressed.
| joman wrote: |
The sorting of pebbles is in accordance with natural laws instituted by a lawgiver. It is therefore the result of an intelligent design.
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This is a wonderful tautology. In other words, ANY example of where an increase in complexity is observed is due to intelligent design. But then again, so is every example of where a DECREASE in complexity is observed, since God created the universe.
| joman wrote: |
The sorting of the pebbles proves that there is a lawful order by which this occurs and it isn't a random effect.
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Yes, Joman, that was exactly my point. Randomization can be undone by waves, which are not intelligent. This is a counterexample to the common creationist claim that an increase in order can only come from the guiding hand of an intelligent designer.
| joman wrote: |
The evo's being terrible scientists and logicians reason willy-nilly about everything.
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Remember what I said about P's law of arguing with literal Biblical creationists?
I am a logician. I'm doing my Ph.D in one of the best logic departments on the planet, and I know A LOT about this stuff. Evolutionary biologists are not particularly bad logicians at all. In my expert opinion, the arguments of literal Biblical creationists contain CONSIDERABLY more fallacies than those of evolutionary biologists. In fact, literal Biblical creation absolutely requires one to use unsound reasoning.
| joman wrote: |
For example there isn't any sorting mechanism nor source in outer space that can provide the constituents of the earth. Does this fact convince evo's of anything? Nah.
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What are you talking about? Our planet is made out of atoms. Most of them were created by supernovas. Then gravity coalesced them into a planet. There you have your source and sorting mechanism. You can disagree with these things if you want, but then you disagree with thousands of expert professional astronomers who know a whole lot more about this stuff than you do.
| joman wrote: |
Ps. Whales had legs...ha ha ha ha ha.
Satan is sure getting a good laugh from the oxymoronic evo's. |
If Satan is lauging, then it's at the fact that you believe things which are provably false. They have pictures for God's sake!!!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Come on Joman, the ball is in your court... This is the point where you either have to admit that whales sometimes are born with legs, or you have to renounce ALL of the papers that I cited as being fraudulent.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8237
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Guess what... I just found out that ancient whales had legs as well...
Check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilosaurus
Ancient whales had legs; modern whales can have legs (and certainly have the DNA for legs in their genomes)... How can anyone deny that these things evolved from land creatures???
The evidence is totally against the possibility of God designing them directly. No way would He have put legs onto sea mammals! There's just no way an omniscient God could screw up so badly!!!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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