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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | The "original paper" used Whitelaw's calculations from 1970. |
What?!? Whitelaw's paper was only cited because it was used as a point of reference when exploring this issue. It had nothing to do with the CURRENT published findings, using current technology that takes these contamination 'processes' (which do not include coal being briefly exposed to CO2 BTW  as it is NON-issue) into account.
Whitelaw's paper has nothing to do with the current findings at all.
Care to try again?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Whitelaw's paper was only cited because it was used as a point of reference when exploring this issue. |
The first thing I saw from RATE used Whitelaw's dating results.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | using current technology that takes these contamination 'processes' (which do not include coal being briefly exposed to CO2 BTW as it is NON-issue) into account. |
It can't take modern C14 into account, it only reduces the effects of other sources of radiation by counting C14 directly. You know how AMS works, right? It can't differentiate between ancient and modern C14, it can only count it. Modern C14 explains the results. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Whitelaw's paper was only cited because it was used as a point of reference when exploring this issue. |
The first thing I saw from RATE used Whitelaw's dating results. |
Which demonstrated what point? That you didn't bother reading the rest of the paragraph?
| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | using current technology that takes these contamination 'processes' (which do not include coal being briefly exposed to CO2 BTW as it is NON-issue) into account. |
It can't take modern C14 into account, it only reduces the effects of other sources of radiation by counting C14 directly. You know how AMS works, right? It can't differentiate between ancient and modern C14, it can only count it. Modern C14 explains the results. |
Modern c14 explains the results? And this is your opinion... guess... excuse... all of the above? Or do you have a mechanism for contamination? A mechanism that is part of science? Something that we can actually test?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Which demonstrated what point? That you didn't bother reading the rest of the paragraph? |
 RATE's results don't particularly surprise or amaze me.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Modern c14 explains the results? And this is your opinion... guess... excuse... all of the above? Or do you have a mechanism for contamination? A mechanism that is part of science? Something that we can actually test? |
It hasn't been narrowed down yet, but yes, there are scientific explanations. Link. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Modern c14 explains the results? And this is your opinion... guess... excuse... all of the above? Or do you have a mechanism for contamination? A mechanism that is part of science? Something that we can actually test? |
It hasn't been narrowed down yet, but yes, there are scientific explanations. Link. |
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?
We went through this already...  tell me... which one of these excuses is going to contaminate EVERY SINGLE COAL SAMPLE IN THE WORLD?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Have you tested every single coal sample in the world?
Because along the same lines, oil tends to have anomalous C14 in it. But a lot of oil doesn't have any detectable C14. How is that possible? I believe I already asked you this question. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Have you tested every single coal sample in the world? |
Nope... but every single one that has been tested produces c14 results. But... that doesn't seem to bother you one bit...
| Quote: | | Because along the same lines, oil tends to have anomalous C14 in it. But a lot of oil doesn't have any detectable C14. How is that possible? I believe I already asked you this question. |
A few reasons perhaps. Diluted ... if oil is diluted... we will never be able to measure with any amount of accuracy concentrations of c14. Perhaps permeability. If you haven't realized yet, leeching could have a greater impact on a liquid than a solid. There are all sorts of reasons… but then again, I believe I have read somewhere… I’d have to look it up, where there have been c14 results produced with oil and gas.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Nope... but every single one that has been tested produces c14 results. But... that doesn't seem to bother you one bit... |
And how many samples have been tested, exactly?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | A few reasons perhaps. Diluted ... if oil is diluted... we will never be able to measure with any amount of accuracy concentrations of c14. |
Diluted with what? The samples were not diluted after being collected.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Perhaps permeability. |
How would that effect the C14 in coal?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | If you haven't realized yet, leeching could have a greater impact on a liquid than a solid. |
Leeching of what? Is the C14 somehow going to come out? Oil is mostly carbon. If the carbon was coming out, it would come out evenly, not just the slightly radioactive bits.
Why would some oil have no detectable C14 but other oil have plenty? All oil should have roughly the same amount of C14 if it's all the same age, right? |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Nope... but every single one that has been tested produces c14 results. But... that doesn't seem to bother you one bit... |
And how many samples have been tested, exactly? |
14,268... precisely.
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | A few reasons perhaps. Diluted ... if oil is diluted... we will never be able to measure with any amount of accuracy concentrations of c14. |
Diluted with what? The samples were not diluted after being collected. |
Do you even know how oil is formed?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Perhaps permeability. |
How would that effect the C14 in coal? |
Changing the subject again... I thought we were discussing oil here?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | If you haven't realized yet, leeching could have a greater impact on a liquid than a solid. |
Leeching of what? Is the C14 somehow going to come out? Oil is mostly carbon. If the carbon was coming out, it would come out evenly, not just the slightly radioactive bits. |
My Mississippi... 
| Quote: | | Why would some oil have no detectable C14 but other oil have plenty? All oil should have roughly the same amount of C14 if it's all the same age, right? |
I don't FFT... why not try explaining it without leeching, or dilution. You asked a question... an apparently don't like the answers.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | 14,268... precisely. |
Citation?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Do you even know how oil is formed? |
Yes, I know how oil is formed. What do you propose it was diluted by?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Changing the subject again... I thought we were discussing oil here? |
You're correct. I mixed up the words. How would permeability affect the C14 in oil?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | My Mississippi... |
 Okay ... how could leeching affect the C14 in oil?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | ]I don't FFT... why not try explaining it without leeching, or dilution. You asked a question... an apparently don't like the answers. |
Your answers have much in common with my original answers as to why there was C14 in tested coal. Before I actually did the research to support them. Your answers are a bunch of "maybes" and "coulds."
Your answers are incomplete. Try again. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | 14,268... precisely. |
Citation? |
Citation... since when has it become a requirement to cite here? You seem to be having a pretty good time making stuff up as we go along... I thought I'd give it a try to see what it is like... and you know... even though it is a bit dishonest... it really makes making your point seem valid pretty easy. I think I just might keep this up.
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Changing the subject again... I thought we were discussing oil here? |
You're correct. I mixed up the words. How would permeability affect the C14 in oil? |
If there are other sources for c14 near by, it is easier to contaminate oil through leeching as coal is pretty static and oil is not. Oil, is a liquid and can be moved through pressures applied to it. Coal doesn't.
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | ]I don't FFT... why not try explaining it without leeching, or dilution. You asked a question... an apparently don't like the answers. |
Your answers have much in common with my original answers as to why there was C14 in tested coal. Before I actually did the research to support them. Your answers are a bunch of "maybes" and "coulds." |
Research??? What research??? Oyu made phone call for Pete's sake. You have cited zippo and are now trying to move away from what the evidence demonstrates with this oil thing... for some reason.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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thunder
Lion King
Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 1222
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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" In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." Eph.1:11-14
It appears as though God does what He wants, when He wants, how He wants, where He wants, to whom He wants and that we ( His cogniscant creation? ) ... are to never question why ...!
But, of course, that isn't good enough for some ( including my self, however (( in my defense )), I love and appreciate Him and His intent, what ever that is, and look forward to that promised," the redemption of the purchased possession," (( considering all of His known creation,i.e., space, time, ginetics, water, and all unknown creation )) that should be something very excellent ).
thunder
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Submit to God in Christ |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thunder... got a question for ya...
What confronted with 'scientific evidence' (um... in case you haven't heard there is 'mountains' of it supporting evolution) how do you respond to someone who claims that science has demonstrated that they have demonstrated that there is no need to involke a 'creator' and that Christianity is just a myth.
I read your post and am a bit confused on what you are saying.
Thanks brother!
Trinity
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6292
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Citation... since when has it become a requirement to cite here? You seem to be having a pretty good time making stuff up as we go along... I thought I'd give it a try to see what it is like... and you know... even though it is a bit dishonest... it really makes making your point seem valid pretty easy. I think I just might keep this up. |
When you start quoting numbers is a good start. My posts have been mostly inferences, I haven't made anything up.
Seriously, how many coal samples have been tested?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | If there are other sources for c14 near by, it is easier to contaminate oil through leeching as coal is pretty static and oil is not. Oil, is a liquid and can be moved through pressures applied to it. Coal doesn't. |
But there's no reason for C14 to be affected any differently than the normal C12 and C13 in the oil. Why would it be absent in some samples but present in others?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Research??? What research??? Oyu made phone call for Pete's sake. |
Yeah, all I did was make a phone call.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | You have cited zippo and are now trying to move away from what the evidence demonstrates with this oil thing... for some reason. :S |
Because it's a perfect example of anomalous C14. Oil samples are tested much more frequently than coal samples as there's actually a legitimate reason to radiocarbon date oil. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Citation... since when has it become a requirement to cite here? You seem to be having a pretty good time making stuff up as we go along... I thought I'd give it a try to see what it is like... and you know... even though it is a bit dishonest... it really makes making your point seem valid pretty easy. I think I just might keep this up. |
When you start quoting numbers is a good start. My posts have been mostly inferences, I haven't made anything up.
Seriously, how many coal samples have been tested? |
I have no earthly idea. I suppose I could call virtually every AMS facility in the world and try to get some raw data... but then again, I have seen some videos of 'amatuers' going out, gathering samples, taking them back to his home and testing them with his own AMS machine.... I guess I would have to determine how many of these things have ever been made, their location, servicability, get a good look at their maintenance records, their calibration records, etc... is that what you want me to do, or is there a point to your question here?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | If there are other sources for c14 near by, it is easier to contaminate oil through leeching as coal is pretty static and oil is not. Oil, is a liquid and can be moved through pressures applied to it. Coal doesn't. |
But there's no reason for C14 to be affected any differently than the normal C12 and C13 in the oil. Why would it be absent in some samples but present in others? |
I'm sure you have heard of the different types of oil... their associated weights... etc... Some oil is higher quality than others. It depends greatly upon its weight and density.
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Research??? What research??? Oyu made phone call for Pete's sake. |
Yeah, all I did was make a phone call. |
Well... the only thing you have cited is that phone call. What else am I suppose to assume you did?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | You have cited zippo and are now trying to move away from what the evidence demonstrates with this oil thing... for some reason. :S |
Because it's a perfect example of anomalous C14. Oil samples are tested much more frequently than coal samples as there's actually a legitimate reason to radiocarbon date oil. |
Ok... let me ask you this then... what would you say that a c14 has to be before it becomes questionable... or anomalous as you have inferred?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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