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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | Clearly there is something wrong with the Biblical flood story. There is NO way that the whole area where Noah lived could have been flooded up to the height of the highest mountain. He had plenty of warning; instead of building a ship, he would have climbed to higher ground and built a farm. |
And that is exactly why a local flood scenario makes no sense at all. All he would have had to do is move to higher ground. Not waste 120 years building a boat. |
And the global flood scenario makes no sense at all because at least one of the following two things had to be true:
a) There was WAY more water on the planet than there is now.
or b) The Earth was almost flat, with practically no mountains or highlands.
... and we know that neither of those scenarios could possibly have been true, allowing us to soundly conclude that the global flood story could not possibly have happened.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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theseldomscene
Banned
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 7817
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:21 am Post subject: |
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i will stay out of this except to say...that is not quite right p38...but funny nontheless....  |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| theseldomscene wrote: | | i will stay out of this except to say...that is not quite right p38...but funny nontheless.... |
Really, what is not quite right? Whenever I say that there wasn't enough water on the planet for a global flood, someone inevitably points out that if all of the land were flat, then the whole planet would be under 10 miles of ocean, and then I have to argue that there is no way that all of the world's mountain ranges were created in the last 6000 years... So I decided to skip all of that and just add the extra sentence to my argument.
If I am missing something, I honestly would like to know.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
And the global flood scenario makes no sense at all because at least one of the following two things had to be true: |
Ah... but you were arguing for a local flood I thought? And then we shift gears...
| Quote: | | a) There was WAY more water on the planet than there is now. |
Already discussed this... it is not a problem. BTW... don't we argue that Mars was once covered with water too due to 'canyons' created by errosion are present? But... there is not any water on that rock... hmmm? 
| Quote: | | or b) The Earth was almost flat, with practically no mountains or highlands. |
And this is a problem?
| Quote: | | ... and we know that neither of those scenarios could possibly have been true, allowing us to soundly conclude that the global flood story could not possibly have happened. |
No, actually what we know that is soundly not true is that the age of the mountains is pretty much a farse as at current erosion rates. ALL mountains should have eroded flat some 14 million years ago...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | No, actually what we know that is soundly not true is that the age of the mountains is pretty much a farse as at current erosion rates. ALL mountains should have eroded flat some 14 million years ago... |
So I guess you weren't aware that the Himalayas are actually rising? There are more forces at work on mountains than erosion. On top of that, erosion rates right now are higher than they have been in the past because there are higher mountains today than there have been in the distant past. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: |
Ah... but you were arguing for a local flood I thought? And then we shift gears...
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We know for a fact that there was a major flood in the Black Sea area. Bob Ballard proved it. This flood happened at the same time as the one in the Bible, and to the people of the area (who knew next to NOTHING about geography), it certainly would have seemed like a global flood. Case closed.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
Already discussed this... it is not a problem. BTW... don't we argue that Mars was once covered with water too due to 'canyons' created by errosion are present? But... there is not any water on that rock... hmmm?
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There is plenty of water on Mars. It is frozen in big ice caps at the poles.
| Trinity1 wrote: |
| Quote: | | or b) The Earth was almost flat, with practically no mountains or highlands. |
And this is a problem?
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Yes, it is a MAJOR PROBLEM. It is absolutely inconceivable that all of the world's mountain ranges could have been created during the past 6000 or so years. Even if you have no respect for what the expert geologists have to say on the subject (they all agree that the mountains are many millions of years old), for all of the world's mountains to rise up in that short a time would have meant CONSTANT and EXTREME earthquakes (we're talking like magnitude 11) all over the planet... And yet ancient texts are remarkably devoid of mentioning anything like this. (And such frequent MASSIVE earthquakes would have been THE dominant force in their lives, so they WOULD DEFINITELY have mentioned them).
Oh yeah, and we have cities and monuments and erect structures from back then, NONE of which could possibly have survived such earthquakes, or the flood, for that matter.
So yes, it is a problem.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | There is plenty of water on Mars. It is frozen in big ice caps at the poles. |
Only one of them 
| P1234567890 wrote: | | Oh yeah, and we have cities and monuments and erect structures from back then, NONE of which could possibly have survived such earthquakes, or the flood, for that matter. |
And written Chinese history goes farther back, and isn't interrupted by any flood. Unless you want to count the Chinese' own flood myth, which far predates the Abrahamic and has little in common with it. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | There is plenty of water on Mars. It is frozen in big ice caps at the poles. |
Only one of them
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Ok, I stand corrected! I was only off by one!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:45 am Post subject: |
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There isn't any water on Mars.
If there was water on Mars there couldn't be any trace of methane in the atmosphere, which alas, there is.
The poles of Mars aren't made of water.
Joman. |
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joman
Tiger
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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There was a global flood in the days of Noah just like the bible says.
And, as to be expected the evidence of it is obvious.
Joman. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | There isn't any water on Mars.
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I believe NASA over you, Joman.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8326
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | There was a global flood in the days of Noah just like the bible says.
And, as to be expected the evidence of it is obvious.
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And the fact that there isn't enough water on the planet, and that the mountains couldn't have been formed in such a short time, and the fact that Bob Ballard discovered th true flood doesn't bother you ONE BIT?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | There are more forces at work on mountains than erosion. |
Such as?
| Quote: | | On top of that, erosion rates right now are higher than they have been in the past because there are higher mountains today than there have been in the distant past. |
Huh? We have higher mountains because why again? Because there isn't as much rain? Not following here...
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: | | If there was water on Mars there couldn't be any trace of methane in the atmosphere, which alas, there is. |
What? This doesn't even begin to make sense. The Earth has methane in the atmosphere. Does that mean there's no water here either?
Here's Wikipedia's page on Mars
"The atmosphere on Mars consists of 95% carbon dioxide, 3% nitrogen, 1.6% argon, and contains traces of oxygen and water."
"It was recently shown that methane could also be produced by a non-biological process involving water, carbon dioxide, and the mineral olivine, which is known to be common on Mars."
(By the way, P, apparently the number of ice caps change. Sometimes Mars just has the one, sometimes it has one at both poles. Apparently it gets so cold that CO2 condenses.
| joman wrote: | | The poles of Mars aren't made of water. |
This is half true. The pole that stays covered in ice has water and CO2 in it. The other pole cap is seasonal and composed almost entirely of CO2 when it forms, if I understand correctly. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Those handy plate tectonics? I suppose you've got an explanation for that as well?
Does it work with the Hawaiian islands?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Huh? We have higher mountains because why again? Because there isn't as much rain? Not following here... |
We have higher mountains due to a number of factors. Plate tectonics as the obvious, they're going to keep pushing and certain ranges are going to keep getting higher. Volcanic activity is another source (although not nearly as widespread). There's also material collecting from the mantle below.
We know the Himalayas are rising. Clearly erosion is not the only factor on the heights of mountains. |
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