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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8329
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Ryck wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: |
The rebuttal is trivial: if there was a great world-wide flood, then where did all the water go? There isn't NEARLY enough water in ALL of the ice caps on Earth to flood the entire planet up to the hight of the highest mountain. So where's all the extra water? |
More than 70% percent of the Earth's surface is water.
"Where is all the extra water", you ask? Take a guess.  |
I don't think you get it. There is not enough water on Earth to flood the entire planet up to the hight of the highest mountain. This is a fact.
Do you think that if the ice caps melted, then there would be no land left on Earth?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Ryck wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: |
The rebuttal is trivial: if there was a great world-wide flood, then where did all the water go? There isn't NEARLY enough water in ALL of the ice caps on Earth to flood the entire planet up to the hight of the highest mountain. So where's all the extra water? |
More than 70% percent of the Earth's surface is water.
"Where is all the extra water", you ask? Take a guess. |
I don't think you get it. There is not enough water on Earth to flood the entire planet up to the hight of the highest mountain. This is a fact.
Do you think that if the ice caps melted, then there would be no land left on Earth? |
P... today you would be correct. However, the Bible states the earth was covered 15 cubits above the highest mountain. Which mountain though?
If the Psalmist is corect and says 'the mountains rose up'... then that means they were lower than they are today, or new mountains have risen up since.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | And what on earth caused that? Why did it only pertain to that period of time and not others? |
There are two explanations that I have heard that I posted elsewhere.
1. There was a catastrophe which prevented fossils from surviving to today.
2. Pre-Cambrian organisms simply lacked the necessary structures to fossilize.
| Trinity1 wrote: | | Because your argument here was that ToE would have gone away had the evidence not been present. I am only pointing out the fact that... it wasn't, yet it didn't go away as you said it should of. |
The evidence has always been present. It just wasn't until the 1800's that the implications of the evidence were examined. This was, expectedly, challenged by those with a vested interest (or simply belief) in the idea that the Earth was only 5,800 years old at the time. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | And what on earth caused that? Why did it only pertain to that period of time and not others? |
There are two explanations that I have heard that I posted elsewhere.
1. There was a catastrophe which prevented fossils from surviving to today. |
Any ideas what type of catastrophe might prevent this?
| Quote: | | 2. Pre-Cambrian organisms simply lacked the necessary structures to fossilize. |
As in? I'm not sure what you are implying here. Are you saying that soft bodied organisms can not fossilize... surely you know this is not true. What other possibilities are there?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | Any ideas what type of catastrophe might prevent this? |
The global ice age that ended at the beginning of the Cambrian, maybe?
| Trinity1 wrote: | | As in? I'm not sure what you are implying here. Are you saying that soft bodied organisms can not fossilize... surely you know this is not true. What other possibilities are there? |
True, I didn't phrase that correctly.
Pre-Cambrian organisms lacked the structure to fossilize as "easily" as after the Cambrian. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | Any ideas what type of catastrophe might prevent this? |
The global ice age that ended at the beginning of the Cambrian, maybe? |
And there hasn't been subsequent ice ages with the same results... yes?
| Quote: | | Trinity1 wrote: | | As in? I'm not sure what you are implying here. Are you saying that soft bodied organisms can not fossilize... surely you know this is not true. What other possibilities are there? |
True, I didn't phrase that correctly.
Pre-Cambrian organisms lacked the structure to fossilize as "easily" as after the Cambrian. |
Structures like what? I'm still not following. Are you saying that since the majority of the organisms prior to the Precambrian were soft bodied, we therefore don't get as many fossils?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | * The evolution of active predators in the late Precambrian likely spurred the coevolution of hard parts on other animals. These hard parts fossilize much more easily than the previous soft-bodied animals, leading to many more fossils but not necessarily more animals.
* Early complex animals may have been nearly microscopic. Apparent fossil animals smaller than 0.2 mm have been found in the Doushantuo Formation, China, forty to fifty-five million years before the Cambrian (Chen et al. 2004). Much of the early evolution could have simply been too small to see.
* The earth was just coming out of a global ice age at the beginning of the Cambrian (Hoffman 1998; Kerr 2000). A "snowball earth" before the Cambrian explosion may have hindered development of complexity or kept populations down so that fossils would be too rare to expect to find today. The more favorable environment after the snowball earth would have opened new niches for life to evolve into.
* Hox genes, which control much of an animal's basic body plan, were likely first evolving around that time. Development of these genes might have just then allowed the raw materials for body plans to diversify (Carroll 1997).
* Atmospheric oxygen may have increased at the start of the Cambrian (Canfield and Teske 1996; Logan et al. 1995; Thomas 1997).
* Planktonic grazers began producing fecal pellets that fell to the bottom of the ocean rapidly, profoundly changing the ocean state, especially its oxygenation (Logan et al. 1995).
* Unusual amounts of phosphate were deposited in shallow seas at the start of the Cambrian (Cook and Shergold 1986; Lipps and Signor 1992). |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Ryck wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: |
The rebuttal is trivial: if there was a great world-wide flood, then where did all the water go? There isn't NEARLY enough water in ALL of the ice caps on Earth to flood the entire planet up to the hight of the highest mountain. So where's all the extra water? |
More than 70% percent of the Earth's surface is water.
"Where is all the extra water", you ask? Take a guess. |
I don't think you get it. There is not enough water on Earth to flood the entire planet up to the hight of the highest mountain. This is a fact.
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It is also a fact that the Earth is not geologically static. Perhaps the highest mountain was not so high. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the highest mountains were really really high. The flood water of Noah's day was higher than any mountain in the area that effected Noah. Noah's ship simply had to float until the water settled. It wasn't traveling anywhere to where the land was higher.
And all the weight of that water would surely caused geologic effects pushing rocks in certain directions and pressing down rocks in other direction. That water presssing and sloshing about the Earth must effect a number of things.
| Quote: |
Do you think that if the ice caps melted, then there would be no land left on Earth? |
I believe it would cause a 300 foot rise in sea level so I don't believe it would. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Are you aware that oxygen is a very reactive element? An increase in oxygen levels wouldn't be as beneficial to evolution as you would like to believe. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Ryck wrote: | | It is also a fact that the Earth is not geologically static. Perhaps the highest mountain was not so high. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the highest mountains were really really high. The flood water of Noah's day was higher than any mountain in the area that effected Noah. Noah's ship simply had to float until the water settled. It wasn't traveling anywhere to where the land was higher. |
Float?
For the sake of argument, how high would you say the mountains at the time were?
| Ryck wrote: | | Are you aware that oxygen is a very reactive element? An increase in oxygen levels wouldn't be as beneficial to evolution as you would like to believe. |
Are animals stronger or weaker in the presence of higher oxygen levels? |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8329
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Ryck wrote: |
It is also a fact that the Earth is not geologically static. Perhaps the highest mountain was not so high. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the highest mountains were really really high. The flood water of Noah's day was higher than any mountain in the area that effected Noah. Noah's ship simply had to float until the water settled. It wasn't traveling anywhere to where the land was higher. |
There are plenty of mountains where Noah lived that would not have been flooded by the water. You can find 500 foot mountains all over the place.
Clearly there is something wrong with the Biblical flood story. There is NO way that the whole area where Noah lived could have been flooded up to the height of the highest mountain. He had plenty of warning; instead of building a ship, he would have climbed to higher ground and built a farm.
Besides, we already know that the great flood refers to the flooding of the Black Sea basin. Since people back then were geographically ignorant, they thought that this was the whole world, when in fact it was just the whole known world.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Ryck wrote: | | It is also a fact that the Earth is not geologically static. Perhaps the highest mountain was not so high. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the highest mountains were really really high. The flood water of Noah's day was higher than any mountain in the area that effected Noah. Noah's ship simply had to float until the water settled. It wasn't traveling anywhere to where the land was higher. |
Float?
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Yes, float. Noah's ark didn't have sails, wasn't driven by men with oars, nor did it have an outboard motor. Not even so much as a propeller driven by hampsters. It only had to float.
It was an ARK!! A chest or box - but a big one made waterproof and with vents for fresh air.
| Quote: |
For the sake of argument, how high would you say the mountains at the time were?
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I don't know.
| Quote: |
| Ryck wrote: | | Are you aware that oxygen is a very reactive element? An increase in oxygen levels wouldn't be as beneficial to evolution as you would like to believe. |
Are animals stronger or weaker in the presence of higher oxygen levels? |
I'm sure animals would enjoy a higher oxygen level. But pre-DNA protein molecules in the premordial soup (aka primordial ocean) would have a tough time existing in an oxygen atmosphere. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ryck wrote: | Yes, float. Noah's ark didn't have sails, wasn't driven by men with oars, nor did it have an outboard motor. Not even so much as a propeller driven by hampsters. It only had to float.
It was an ARK!! A chest or box - but a big one made waterproof and with vents for fresh air. |
The two statements ("Float? For the sake of argument, how high would you say the mountains at the time were?") were connected. I wasn't questioning that the story says it floated, I'm working on a logical progression here.
| Ryck wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | For the sake of argument, how high would you say the mountains at the time were? |
I don't know. |
Ballpark figure?
| Ryck wrote: | | I'm sure animals would enjoy a higher oxygen level. But pre-DNA protein molecules in the premordial soup (aka primordial ocean) would have a tough time existing in an oxygen atmosphere. |
Uh, why? |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: |
| Ryck wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | For the sake of argument, how high would you say the mountains at the time were? |
I don't know. |
Ballpark figure? |
Lets say 1 mile... for the sake of argument.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Clearly there is something wrong with the Biblical flood story. There is NO way that the whole area where Noah lived could have been flooded up to the height of the highest mountain. He had plenty of warning; instead of building a ship, he would have climbed to higher ground and built a farm. |
And that is exactly why a local flood scenario makes no sense at all. All he would have had to do is move to higher ground. Not waste 120 years building a boat.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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