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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: JWs aren't the only ones... |
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JW's aren't the only ones trying to make sure that medical technology is not used to help people...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13810091/
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: |
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I don't appreciate your statements made out of ignorance. We don't refuse medical technology. We refuse to violate God's law. Your atheistic values cannot allow you to see that.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | I don't appreciate your statements made out of ignorance. We don't refuse medical technology. We refuse to violate God's law. Your atheistic values cannot allow you to see that. |
Blood transfusions are an example of medical technology as far as I can tell... But then again, maybe that's just my ignorance speaking.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | | Your atheistic values cannot allow you to see that. |
Incidentally, is it also just my 'atheistic values' which are causing me to have problems understanding that 'abstain' should apply to blood transfusions?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
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P,
| P123... wrote: | | Blood transfusions are an example of medical technology as far as I can tell... But then again, maybe that's just my ignorance speaking. |
Smearing poop on people was considered medical technology in the past. Making an informed decision on a medical procedure is not rejecting medical technology. Just that procedure.
| P123... wrote: | | Incidentally, is it also just my 'atheistic values' which are causing me to have problems understanding that 'abstain' should apply to blood transfusions? |
I see. Let me help you adjust your 'atheistic values' to include an understanding of what abstain means.
Abstain definition:
1. To refrain from something by one's own choice: abstain from traditional political rhetoric. See Synonyms at refrain1.
2. To refrain from voting: Forty senators voted in favor of the bill, 45 voted against it, and 15 abstained.
Abstain does not just mean not eating. It means avoiding.
I am saying I abstain from blood.
Now you explain how "abstain from blood" would not include a blood transfusion.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: |
| P123... wrote: | | Blood transfusions are an example of medical technology as far as I can tell... But then again, maybe that's just my ignorance speaking. |
Smearing poop on people was considered medical technology in the past. Making an informed decision on a medical procedure is not rejecting medical technology. Just that procedure. |
Except that smearing poop on people is not a good medical procedure that saves lives, whereas blood transfusions are.
| TBax wrote: |
I see. Let me help you adjust your 'atheistic values' to include an understanding of what abstain means.
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It's really strange that you think interpreting words has something to do with atheism.
| TBax wrote: |
Abstain does not just mean not eating. It means avoiding.
I am saying I abstain from blood.
Now you explain how "abstain from blood" would not include a blood transfusion. |
Let's say that drinking goat's milk was forbidden in the Bible, and let's say there are a bunch of paragraphs explaining why goat's milk is bad. Then, at the end of those paragraphs, there's a line that says, "Abstain from milk."
Under your interpretation, you would take thes last few words as literally as possible, and never drink ANY milk, including cow's milk and mother's milk. You would justify the ensuing malnourishment of babies just like you justify avoiding blood transfusions.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: |
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P,
| P123 wrote: | | Except that smearing poop on people is not a good medical procedure that saves lives, whereas blood transfusions are. |
So. They thought it saved lives. And if you lived back then and were told poop saves lives, you would be arguing for poop now.
We don't reject medical technology. If a medical procedure violates God's word, we reject that procedure. We appreciate medical technology.
| P123 wrote: | | It's really strange that you think interpreting words has something to do with atheism. |
It's really strange that you don't understand that gaining knowledge has everything to do with setting values.
| P123... wrote: | Let's say that drinking goat's milk was forbidden in the Bible, and let's say there are a bunch of paragraphs explaining why goat's milk is bad. Then, at the end of those paragraphs, there's a line that says, "Abstain from milk."
Under your interpretation, you would take thes last few words as literally as possible, and never drink ANY milk, including cow's milk and mother's milk. You would justify the ensuing malnourishment of babies just like you justify avoiding blood transfusions. |
Oh, I see what you are saying. You think it is OK to drink human blood. I don't know if you know this, but God never intended for other people to be eaten. However He didn't leave any doubt about this blood thing.
GEN 9:4 Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat. 5 And, besides that, YOUR blood of YOUR souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his brother, shall I ask back the soul of man.
Do you get the idea.The blood belongs to God, whether it be animal or human, and he asks it back.God views blood as sacred and belonging to him.We are not to eat it, including human blood. Again this command was not done away with as the 1st century Christians included this command among THE NECESSARY THINGS!
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not being a smarty here TBax, because I understand what your saying.
I'm having a problem justifying myself here.
In the past, I have liked my meat medium rare. That is pink and still with the juice of blood in it.
And now you got me thinking, why I am having trouble keeping meat down at all.
And it's not that I believe that meat is not good for one, if eaten with all thanksgiving, but maybe in the preperation of it.
Meat should be cooked well done.
Regardless I'm still haing trouble eating meat lately...
mind over matter??
Peace
lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Let's say that drinking goat's milk was forbidden in the Bible, and let's say there are a bunch of paragraphs explaining why goat's milk is bad. Then, at the end of those paragraphs, there's a line that says, "Abstain from milk."
Under your interpretation, you would take thes last few words as literally as possible, and never drink ANY milk, including cow's milk and mother's milk. You would justify the ensuing malnourishment of babies just like you justify avoiding blood transfusions. |
If you are setting up this milk example for blood, I should warn you no one can find that kind of progression in the Bible regarding blood. No where was certain kinds of animal blood fit for human use and then later all blood was no longer fit for human use. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ryck wrote: |
If you are setting up this milk example for blood, I should warn you no one can find that kind of progression in the Bible regarding blood. No where was certain kinds of animal blood fit for human use and then later all blood was no longer fit for human use. |
That's not really the point. I am saying that being extreme in interpreting scripture is almost always bad. If the Bible actually contained the lines that I describe, and it ended in, "Abstain from milk.", I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone who interpreted "Abstain from blood." in the extreme way also interpreted "Abstain from milk." in the extreme way as well.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2862
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: | I am saying I abstain from blood.
Now you explain how "abstain from blood" would not include a blood transfusion. |
And just how would "abstain from blood" NOT include cooked blood found in meat?
Yehushuan
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There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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TBax
King Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Yehushuan,
Why do you think there is cooked blood found in meat. You get properly bled meat, don't you?
Do some research on properly bleeding animals. See if any blood remains.
_________________
Agape,
TBax |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Even "properly bled meat" contains blood. Even soaking and salting, or even broiling, is going to leave some blood. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TBax wrote: |
Why do you think there is cooked blood found in meat. You get properly bled meat, don't you?
Do some research on properly bleeding animals. See if any blood remains. |
Yeah right, like any amount of bleeding is going to remove ALL of the blood cells. In fact, there would be a whole lot more than just a few cells left. You seriously think that even a properly bled animal couldn't be wrung out to get a few more drops or even cups?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Ryck wrote: |
If you are setting up this milk example for blood, I should warn you no one can find that kind of progression in the Bible regarding blood. No where was certain kinds of animal blood fit for human use and then later all blood was no longer fit for human use. |
That's not really the point. I am saying that being extreme in interpreting scripture is almost always bad. If the Bible actually contained the lines that I describe, and it ended in, "Abstain from milk.", I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone who interpreted "Abstain from blood." in the extreme way also interpreted "Abstain from milk." in the extreme way as well. |
Oh, first you make the point - which was quickly busted - and now that's not the point anymore? LOL
You see, P., part of the problem you have in being constantly a moving target is that just as often as you drop the ball thrown to you your aim is not that accurate either. So stay put long enough, you little bugger!!! 
To answer your point on "extremes".
I think taking live blood from a living being and pushing it into another person's veins is "extreme". Even a century ago, if the thought of a person drinking a pint of blood wasn't revolting enough to a civilized person, what more revolting would it be to tie a tube into a man's arm and push that blood into the man's vein?
There are levels of "extremes".
Besides, there are alternatives to blood transfusion therepy. Many old and many cutting edge stuff. |
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