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admin
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 Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: The word: Excruciating |
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Read something interesting yesterday. It said that when nails are pounded through the wrists for crucifixion, that it is the most unbearable pain possible, because the wrist contains the main nerver endings for the whole hand.
Said the pain was so great, there was no word for it. So the word "excruciating" was created to describe pain like this, and that the word literally means "from the cross".
Is this new info, or something everyone already knows?
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FFT
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| admin wrote: | | because the wrist contains the main nerver endings for the whole hand. |
Is that word for word?
Because the thing about nerve endings is they show up at the end of the nerve, the nerve endings for the whole hand don't show up in the wrist. The nerves do, yes, but not the nerve endings.
And there are worse torture and execution methods than crucifixion. As far as I can tell, the only reasons people think crucifixion is the worst is a: ignorance or b: Jesus' sacrifice can't be worth as much if he didn't suffer as much as humanly possible. |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, it is painfull because the wrist is the nexus for the nerves of the hands. All the nerves of that part run through a little opening (carpal tunnel) and pounding a spike through that nexus would indeed be extremly painful. Not to mention the intense agony of pulling it while trying lift yourself up to breathe.
As for FFT's remarks....
You sir are challenged to demonstrate any type of torture that was implemented in history that in any way compared or surpassed the barbaric horrifying pain of crucifixtion.
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FFT
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Lingchi, complete with pictures of one performed in 1904.
Besides, there are easily imagined variations of crucifixion which would have been more painful.
Again, ignorance, or a need to believe that Jesus died in the most painful way possible. |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Besides, there are easily imagined variations of crucifixion which would have been more painful. |
I'm sure that one can imagine all sorts of types of execution and torture, but the real ones are bad enough.
| Quote: | | Again, ignorance, or a need to believe that Jesus died in the most painful way possible. |
You've stated this twice and I still find little evidence to support your assumption that anyone believes Jesus died, or needed to die in 'the most painful way possible'.
As far as I can tell, it is sufficient to know that He suffered and died, no one I know of has ever asserted that crucifixtion has to be considered the most painful of executions.
It certainly is a painful, tortuous way to die as evidenced in this description:
http://www.konnections.com/Kcundick/crucifix.html
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FFT
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | As far as I can tell, it is sufficient to know that He suffered and died, no one I know of has ever asserted that crucifixtion has to be considered the most painful of executions. |
I've seen it said on several occasions in this very forum. Do you want me to go find them? |
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Nobby
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | I've seen it said on several occasions in this very forum. |
What difference does it make, it was still very painful. He did die & rose again. Argue that awhile! 
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FFT
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | As far as I can tell, it is sufficient to know that He suffered and died, no one I know of has ever asserted that crucifixtion has to be considered the most painful of executions. |
That's the difference it makes.
I'm also curious as to what this was supposed to mean if not as basically an assertion that there was never anything worse than crucifixion: | RevJP wrote: | | You sir are challenged to demonstrate any type of torture that was implemented in history that in any way compared or surpassed the barbaric horrifying pain of crucifixtion. |
Is it a pure assertion? No. But I doubt he would have challenged me if he wasn't reasonably certain that I was going to fail. |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But I doubt he would have challenged me if he wasn't reasonably certain that I was going to fail. |
Why do people talk about you like you are not standing in the same room with them? 
I agree with Nobby however, what does it matter?
BTW I challenged you because you made an assertion that I felt was unfounded. I considered that it may have been part of your usual trolling so I thought I would call you on it. From what I read of your offering on the subject I would have to say you have thusfar failed to offer a possibility that compares.
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admin
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I see this new forum is off to a fine start.
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RevJP
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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LOL 
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FFT
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | I agree with Nobby however, what does it matter? |
I just pointed out why it mattered.
| RevJP wrote: | | BTW I challenged you because you made an assertion that I felt was unfounded. I considered that it may have been part of your usual trolling so I thought I would call you on it. |
Excuse me?
Weren't you just accusing me of an unfounded assertion? Just because you don't like what I say doesn't make it trolling.
| RevJP wrote: | | From what I read of your offering on the subject I would have to say you have thusfar failed to offer a possibility that compares. |
You think Lingchi isn't as bad as crucifixion? Why? |
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RevJP
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I just pointed out why it mattered. |
and I say your assertions were unfounded. You said:
| Quote: | | Again, ignorance, or a need to believe that Jesus died in the most painful way possible. |
I simply find no evidence to support this, you assume motive for what you assume Christians beleive, with nothing more to support it other than your opinion. I charge it as trolling as it seems specifically designed to baith the faithful into argument.
| Quote: | | You think Lingchi isn't as bad as crucifixion? Why? |
I simply do not see it as brutal as crucifxion. It has an elegance to it that makes it, while still severe, less painful, less savage, and less ruthless.
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FFT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | I simply find no evidence to support this, you assume motive for what you assume Christians beleive, with nothing more to support it other than your opinion. |
Did I ever say it was anything more than my opinion? | FFT wrote: | | As far as I can tell, the only reasons people think crucifixion is the worst is a: ignorance or b: Jesus' sacrifice can't be worth as much if he didn't suffer as much as humanly possible. |
This is simply my experience. Either people aren't aware of the depths torturous deaths can descend, or they have some motive for believing that Jesus died in the worst way possible, as if it somehow is worth more that way.
| RevJP wrote: | | I simply do not see it as brutal as crucifxion. It has an elegance to it that makes it, while still severe, less painful, less savage, and less ruthless. |
I'll try to find the other notable one, then, I've forgotten its name. |
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45degreeN
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: God's wrath on Jesus? |
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Isaiah 53:10 It was the Lord's will to crush him to make him suffer NIV
Whether or not the Roman method of crucifixion was horrible and no doubt it was, what about Isaiah's prophecy? Did "God the father" send His wrath onto Jesus? (Lets not get into some trinitarian arguement here). God's wrath is far more personal than any human inflicted pain
Can human inflicted suffering somehow pay for our sins? or must it be God's wrath to pay for our sins? It fits in with the arguement about the "great tribulation" vs just ordinary (or even special but not "the great" )tribulation.
Ultimately our sins are against God aren't they, so the punishment is from the one the sin is against? |
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