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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6338
Location: Memphis
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 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | TOE fallacies are addressed all the time, the inconsistencies of the theory and its failings are pointed out ad nauseum. |
And refuted.
| RevJP wrote: | | The thing is though, that you and yours refuse to acknowledge them, or you refute them (not successfully BTW) and feel confident that you have done a good job because it is what you WANT to believe. |
You feel like we haven't done a good job because it is what YOU want to believe (see the stalemate?). This isn't something anyone but you has control over. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Admin:
| Quote: | My stance overall:
Enjoy the beauty of science and learn - and also enjoy the beauty of our faith. But in both cases use the brain. It's connected quite conveniently to the rest of the body. |
I totally agree... 
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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cballard
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 731
Location: WV
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Not that I think anyone will change their thinking on the Catholic Church, but I do want to present the Catholic Church's side.
First off, consider the times. The earth centered universe had been accepted since ancient Greek times. Scientists predicted solar eclipses and sailors staked their lives on it. Galileo, following Copernicus, decided that the universe was sun centered. I know the terms heliocentric and geocentric, but I'm just attempting to be clear. The Church had supported Copernicus and other scientific endeavors. The problem came in two areas.
First off, the idea of a sun centered universe seemed to contradict Holy Scripture. Joshua made the sun stand still and that doesn't seem to make sense if the sun never moved in the first place. There are other places where a Psalms talked of God making the earth firm in it's place not to move. There's something in Ecclesiastes too, but I forget what it is.
Next, Galileo insisted that the Church take a stand. The Church wanted to call it just a theory. Because he insisted and wrote voraciously to push the Church to decide the issue, the Church decided prematurely that he was a heretic based on Holy Scripture. By the eartly 1700's the Church had already accepted the heliocentric universe.
By the way, admin, just what stand did the Protestants take on this issue??? Oh, I'm sorry, you weren't there yet were you? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You feel like we haven't done a good job because it is what YOU want to believe (see the stalemate?). This isn't something anyone but you has control over. |
This is pretty much my point, isn't it?
Which is why I challenged the absoluteness of the statements made by P123. In the OPINION of those who choose to accept TOE, their arguments are sound and the refutation of those arguments are... (how did P say it?) "are pretty superficial". On the other hand, those who choose to deny TOE the arguments are an assumptive hodgepodge of conflicting and missing data, and their arguments to refute that assertion are gymnastic, logically inconsistent and extremely selective in what 'evidence' they choose to offer or ignore.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: BC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | | You feel like we haven't done a good job because it is what YOU want to believe (see the stalemate?). This isn't something anyone but you has control over. |
This is pretty much my point, isn't it?
Which is why I challenged the absoluteness of the statements made by P123. In the OPINION of those who choose to accept TOE, their arguments are sound and the refutation of those arguments are... (how did P say it?) "are pretty superficial". On the other hand, those who choose to deny TOE the arguments are an assumptive hodgepodge of conflicting and missing data, and their arguments to refute that assertion are gymnastic, logically inconsistent and extremely selective in what 'evidence' they choose to offer or ignore. |
Sounds like reading the bible literally...
***clears throat***
In the OPINION of those who choose to accept the validity of the bible, their arguments are sound and the refutation of those arguments are... (how did P say it?) "are pretty superficial". On the other hand, those who choose to deny the validity of the bible the arguments are an assumptive hodgepodge of conflicting and missing data, and their arguments to refute that assertion are gymnastic, logically inconsistent and extremely selective in what 'evidence' they choose to offer or ignore.
***takes a bow***
How'd I do?
_________________
Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth.
Ana's Bananas |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Joshua made the sun stand still and that doesn't seem to make sense if the sun never moved in the first place. |
and if people would look at things with spiritual understanding rather than with a carnal physical understanding, then they would have understood that what this was refering to is:
Joshua made the Light stand still. That is to say...that God's Spirit remained with man on earth for a longer than normal duration of time before returning to God.
But the Light, God's Spirit, depicted as the greater of two lights in the firmament does move.
But the Sun also revolves around the universe, the same way our earth revolves around the sun. everythings always going round in circles. from the least to the greatest.
And universes revolve around other universes, which revolve around galaxies, or maybe galaxies are smaller than universes in which case the galaxies revolve around the universe.
Eze 8:3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where [was] the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
so whats between the earth and heaven? Sun, Moon, Stars...
And Joshua caused the Spirit of Light to stand still. And Joshua caused the Sun to stand still.
What really scares me is that the people who are in charge of teaching the church the Spiritual Truth have absolutely no idea what it is their reading.
And what they do teach is so off base no wonder the world is in confussion.
You will find a similar account of this in the story of Jacob wrestling with the angel on the ladder. Jacob grabbed his heal and wouldn't let him go.
This is the same as Joshua causing the sun to stand still.
and there are others.
When Jesus is ascending to heaven he stops and talks with those below.
acts chapter 1
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
The Light remained still on earth for forty days.
Now if someone said Jesus made the sun stand still for 40 days, you'd say WHAT?!!
But the Spirit of Light remained with man on earth until He was taken up.
That is the Sun went down.
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ana, not bad, although I have already made that point haven't I?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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