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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5901
Location: Memphis
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 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: | | Every religion on the planet says others are false, so why should that surprise you? |
It doesn't suprise me at all, as Christians are remarkably numb to cognitive dissonance. However, you were trying to come off as enlightened and failed miserably. That is all I've attempted to illustrate.
| Flashman wrote: | | I knew you'd jump all over it because of your shallow understanding. |
I jumped all over it because you said something stupid and I delight in demonstrating the stupidity in what people say.
| Flashman wrote: | | Full of words empty of heart. |
 I'd better watch more Captain Planet then.
| Flashman wrote: | | Children cannot reach an informed decision until they can understand. |
"But you can't understand until you believe!" 
| Flashman wrote: | | As an atheist, I'd expect you not to understand that |
Because you think atheists are drooling mouthbreathers. I understand your perspective fine. It's even normal. However, it clashes with this: | Flashman wrote: | | My kids aren't pressured (coerced) into anything |
| Flashman wrote: | | In your disgusting extreme example, you have selected the acts of a deviant liar (if he professed to be Christian). |
I didn't say a damned thing about his religion, it's a hypothetical example intended to illustrate the faults in your ideas.
| Flashman wrote: | | Your post isn't meant to rebut anything I've said, only to enflame and by it's extremity to degrade the principals of Christianity with an act which you KNOW is not taught anywhere, in any religion. |
"We're going to church because that's the rule in this house" isn't a part of any religion, either. And you pay close attention to how I said that, too. You claim that you aren't pressuring your children, and I'm pointing out that this isn't true.
| Flashman wrote: | | I can write my "rules" down and set them before any magistrate, anywhere and they would smile upon me. You, on the other hand, use your atheism to demonize that which you cannot possibly understand. |
I don't use my atheism to anything. I used an extreme example to show that I understood perfectly damned well how retarded what you're saying is. Just because a judge would say the rules are okay doesn't mean the rules aren't a form of coercion.
| Flashman wrote: | | By its extremity, you have gone beyond discussion and into absolute stupidity!!! You should be ashamed for even tying it into this thread!!! FFT, you have finally reached the epitome of stupid!! |
Everyone loves rule four.
| Flashman wrote: | | P, don't leave us hangin'. What's the alternative meaning for the word clam? |
A lot of religions are fundamentally genital worship. Think. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | Every religion on the planet says others are false, so why should that surprise you? |
It doesn't suprise me at all, as Christians are remarkably numb to cognitive dissonance. However, you were trying to come off as enlightened and failed miserably. That is all I've attempted to illustrate.
| Flashman wrote: | | I knew you'd jump all over it because of your shallow understanding. |
I jumped all over it because you said something stupid and I delight in demonstrating the stupidity in what people say.
| Flashman wrote: | | Full of words empty of heart. |
I'd better watch more Captain Planet then.
| Flashman wrote: | | Children cannot reach an informed decision until they can understand. |
"But you can't understand until you believe!"
| Flashman wrote: | | As an atheist, I'd expect you not to understand that |
Because you think atheists are drooling mouthbreathers. I understand your perspective fine. It's even normal. However, it clashes with this: | Flashman wrote: | | My kids aren't pressured (coerced) into anything |
| Flashman wrote: | | In your disgusting extreme example, you have selected the acts of a deviant liar (if he professed to be Christian). |
I didn't say a damned thing about his religion, it's a hypothetical example intended to illustrate the faults in your ideas.
| Flashman wrote: | | Your post isn't meant to rebut anything I've said, only to enflame and by it's extremity to degrade the principals of Christianity with an act which you KNOW is not taught anywhere, in any religion. |
"We're going to church because that's the rule in this house" isn't a part of any religion, either. And you pay close attention to how I said that, too. You claim that you aren't pressuring your children, and I'm pointing out that this isn't true.
| Flashman wrote: | | I can write my "rules" down and set them before any magistrate, anywhere and they would smile upon me. You, on the other hand, use your atheism to demonize that which you cannot possibly understand. |
I don't use my atheism to anything. I used an extreme example to show that I understood perfectly damned well how retarded what you're saying is. Just because a judge would say the rules are okay doesn't mean the rules aren't a form of coercion.
| Flashman wrote: | | By its extremity, you have gone beyond discussion and into absolute stupidity!!! You should be ashamed for even tying it into this thread!!! FFT, you have finally reached the epitome of stupid!! |
Everyone loves rule four.
| Flashman wrote: | | P, don't leave us hangin'. What's the alternative meaning for the word clam? |
A lot of religions are fundamentally genital worship. Think. |
Mother FFT must be very proud of you. I just got "enlightened" onto rule number four. Thank God we have some mod's with common sense. How you got past rule number 5 is beyond me, since there are no exceptions.
Getting back onto topic. What is the alternative meaning for the word "clam" P? Are you referring to the womb, perhaps? |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5901
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: | | Mother FFT must be very proud of you. I just got "enlightened" onto rule number four. Thank God we have some mod's with common sense. |
Well, rule 16 tends to get overlooked.
| Flashman wrote: | | How you got past rule number 5 is beyond me, since there are no exceptions. |
I don't curse?
| Flashman wrote: | | Getting back onto topic. What is the alternative meaning for the word "clam" P? Are you referring to the womb, perhaps? |
How do you have kids and not know what part of the anatomy looks kind of like a clam? And is even referred to as one by some people? |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | Mother FFT must be very proud of you. I just got "enlightened" onto rule number four. Thank God we have some mod's with common sense. |
Well, rule 16 tends to get overlooked. |
Much to your advantage.
| FFT wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | How you got past rule number 5 is beyond me, since there are no exceptions. |
I don't curse? |
I hurt for you.
| FFT wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | Getting back onto topic. What is the alternative meaning for the word "clam" P? Are you referring to the womb, perhaps? |
How do you have kids and not know what part of the anatomy looks kind of like a clam? And is even referred to as one by some people? |
I directed that question to P. I'm pretty sure P is not a pornograpically oriented little punk with a Napolean complex. Are you P? <no need to answer P, it was essentially a rhetorical question> |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5901
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: | | FFT wrote: | | Well, rule 16 tends to get overlooked. |
Much to your advantage. |
And just about everybody else's as well. Where would the forum be if 7 and 8 got enforced? There'd be no posts in the Revelation forum, for one.
You do realize you're hardly innocent, right? This post contains fifteen sentences. At least eight of them break rule four. 53%? Way to go. You should also check out what I wrote at the top of this page. I broke rule four maybe once, because I mostly wasn't referring to you personally, but rather what you actually said. You also completely missed the point of the example, which was that setting "rules of the house" is a form of pressure.
| Flashman wrote: | | I directed that question to P. |
So?
| Flashman wrote: | | I'm pretty sure P is not a pornograpically oriented little punk with a Napolean complex. |
I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Are you insinuating that I am a pornographically oriented little punk with a Napoleon complex? On what grounds? Or, hey, is this just more gratuitous rule four breakage?
I'll give you a hint. It's a vagina  |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: |
P, don't leave us hangin'. What's the alternative meaning for the word clam? |
Clam is modern slang for vagina, because of its close resemblance of the vulva. This is where the Haida creation myth comes from; it is a thinly-veiled form of mother-worship.
What is really strange is that some people believe the story to be literally true, but then again I guess this is the case for pretty much every religion; someone will always take their beliefs a little too far. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 6781
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: |
You aren't the least astounded, so why pretend, P? You've known for some time now, that everyone with a faith-based belief system has a "mine and only mine" doctrine.
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That's not why I'm astounded. I'm astounded that pretty much every religious person on the planet (and we're talking billions of people here) think that their religion is 'the' religion, even though if they thought about it for a second, they would have no choice but to acknowledge the MAJOR role played by chance (ie. where they were born, and who they were born to) in determining their beliefs. Being ABSOLUTELY certain (in some cases certain enough to kill and / or prosecute others) under these conditions really is astounding, when you consider that billions of people do it.
I think that this is analogous to walking into a casino, playing roulette, and being absolutely convinced that if you bet the barn on red 17, you'll walk out a millionaire.
| Flashman wrote: |
As to your question about how can I be sure? I can be just as sure of my stand as you, that you believe there is no God.
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I'm not sure about this. I'd be willing to entertain this statement if Pondering said it, because he's a Deist, which as far as I can tell is the direct counterpart to being an atheist (I believe that no God exists, and he believes that some God exists). You, on the other hand, have beliefs which are MUCH more specific. Not only do you believe in God, but you're convinced that He's a personal God. In addition, you believe that Christianity is the proper way to worship Him. Not only that, but you believe that your particular sect of Christianity is the proper and true way to worship Him. In general, it is harder for a specific statement to be true than for a general statement to be true, since there are more ways to falsify it. In order for your beliefs to be right, you have to be right on all four counts. I just have to be right on one.
| Flashman wrote: |
As to the geographical location, it's no secret that the belief system of the parents are the largest contributor to the faith of the offspring. I don't deny that if I were born in Saudi Arabia, I'd probably lean toward Islam if not a card-carrying member. |
Yes, exactly; and you'd be JUST as convinced that Islam is the proper way to worship God as you currently are that Christianity is the proper way. So if the accidental coordinates of where you were born determined your religion, then how can you be so convinced that your current religion is the 'right' one?
| Flashman wrote: |
Also, being born in a "free" country helps, too.
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Maybe a little, but let's face it; the number of Americans converting to Islam every year is pretty much as insignificant as the number of Afghanis converting to Christianity. Most people don't convert; they become predisposed to one religion or another VERY early on, either by their families, their teachers, or their societies.
| Flashman wrote: |
If every country in the world would allow all "religions" to be presented, I'm betting on Jesus Christ and His awesome teachings and example to prevail. But, hey, that's just my opinion.  |
Who knows... If kids were taught about every religion in school, and their parents didn't interfere in the process at all, probably most kids would end up flocking to the religion which has the coolest stories.
And incidentally, although I agree that Jesus' teachings are excellent, He by no means has a monopoly on awesomeness. Buddha has a bunch of really great teachings as well; in fact, many of them are the same things that Jesus says. So who's to say that Buddhism wouldn't spread? |
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FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 5901
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Personally, I think if all religions were presented, we'd end up with masses of deists, agnostics, and atheists. I'd imagine it's harder to pick just one when you've got more than one option. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Flashman wrote: |
You aren't the least astounded, so why pretend, P? You've known for some time now, that everyone with a faith-based belief system has a "mine and only mine" doctrine.
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That's not why I'm astounded. I'm astounded that pretty much every religious person on the planet (and we're talking billions of people here) think that their religion is 'the' religion, even though if they thought about it for a second, they would have no choice but to acknowledge the MAJOR role played by chance (ie. where they were born, and who they were born to) in determining their beliefs. Being ABSOLUTELY certain (in some cases certain enough to kill and / or prosecute others) under these conditions really is astounding, when you consider that billions of people do it. |
I withdraw the comment. And I agree with your response.
| P1234567890 wrote: | | Flashman wrote: |
As to your question about how can I be sure? I can be just as sure of my stand as you, that you believe there is no God.
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I'm not sure about this. I'd be willing to entertain this statement if Pondering said it, because he's a Deist, which as far as I can tell is the direct counterpart to being an atheist (I believe that no God exists, and he believes that some God exists). You, on the other hand, have beliefs which are MUCH more specific. Not only do you believe in God, but you're convinced that He's a personal God. In addition, you believe that Christianity is the proper way to worship Him. Not only that, but you believe that your particular sect of Christianity is the proper and true way to worship Him. In general, it is harder for a specific statement to be true than for a general statement to be true, since there are more ways to falsify it. In order for your beliefs to be right, you have to be right on all four counts. I just have to be right on one. |
From my perspective, I only have to be right on one thing, also: that I'm sure of my belief.
| P1234567890 wrote: | | Flashman wrote: |
As to the geographical location, it's no secret that the belief system of the parents are the largest contributor to the faith of the offspring. I don't deny that if I were born in Saudi Arabia, I'd probably lean toward Islam if not a card-carrying member. |
Yes, exactly; and you'd be JUST as convinced that Islam is the proper way to worship God as you currently are that Christianity is the proper way. So if the accidental coordinates of where you were born determined your religion, then how can you be so convinced that your current religion is the 'right' one? |
I wouldn't be much of a Believer if I didn't. But, to indulge the question, I would have to say it's because of the "personal relationship" to God you mentioned. In addition, the Holy Spirit gives Christians confirmation in their "souls" or spirits.
| P1234567890 wrote: | | Flashman wrote: |
Also, being born in a "free" country helps, too.
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Maybe a little, but let's face it; the number of Americans converting to Islam every year is pretty much as insignificant as the number of Afghanis converting to Christianity. Most people don't convert; they become predisposed to one religion or another VERY early on, either by their families, their teachers, or their societies. |
Agreed.
| P1234567890 wrote: | | Flashman wrote: |
If every country in the world would allow all "religions" to be presented, I'm betting on Jesus Christ and His awesome teachings and example to prevail. But, hey, that's just my opinion. |
Who knows... If kids were taught about every religion in school, and their parents didn't interfere in the process at all, probably most kids would end up flocking to the religion which has the coolest stories.
And incidentally, although I agree that Jesus' teachings are excellent, He by no means has a monopoly on awesomeness. Buddha has a bunch of really great teachings as well; in fact, many of them are the same things that Jesus says. So who's to say that Buddhism wouldn't spread? |
Good point, but when one gets older and begins having real tribulation in their lives the "cool stories" better be true. Most "real" Christians will tell you that when they converted there was a settling in their spirits which confirmed they'd made the "right" choice. I'll allow that Buddha has some awesomeness to him and some cool stories but I don't have enough experience with him to be able to answer the question fully. All I can do is tell you why I think I've made the right choice and why it's right for everyone else. Not from a pride standpoint, but from a standpoint of my experience. |
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