The Doctrine and The Wall

epouraniois · Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: The Doctrine and The Wall

I am under the impression that the word 'doctrine' somehow brings some form of negative imagery. I would like to show why this simply cannot be.

Now if I wish to have any practical application of purchasing, say coffee and a donut, it is necessary for me to be able to discern if I am prepared and able to do so.

The doctrine of math dictates that I be able to add the cost of the coffee and the cost of the donut to see if I have the moneys for the purchase. I do this subconsciously almost, the doctrine being well rooted and prepared for the operation of the practice.

The doctrine is a sound doctrine. It dictates that I need to be prepared for this purchase in some manner. If I do not know this doctrine I may find myself in an shameful position at the time of the desired purchase.

Therefore it is absolutely imperative that this mathematical doctrine be well established in my mind before I attempt any practice the purposeful application upon which this rests.

If I have not received this doctrine, I will be unprepared to work out it's practical application.

No doctrine = no practice. Unsound doctrine = unsound practice.

After Israel was set aside till the times of the gentiles be full, which is God's administration which we are now under, the apostle was sent to all nations with a doctrine especially for us, namely all nations.

My observance is that most are indoctrinated into that which was given to a previous administration. The result of this is that, although they are aware they have been sent an apostle (Paul), they do not realize that Paul taught two separate doctrines.

Without the observance of these two distinct doctrines, it is impossible to know what it is that we are given to practice.

Acts is the historical record of God's longsuffering with His earthly people Israel. They have always been in covenant relation with God. They looked for a kingdom. The disciples were being trained for apostleship. Therefore the Lord instructed them to pray, 'thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven'. They were then sent forth that this kingdom prayer be realized and come from heaven to the earth.

This is a kingdom prayer for the hope of Israel. It is the purpose set forth in the Acts and every epistle written therein, lasting some 35 years they went forth with signs following, the Lord working with them.

Paul said he taught none other things than Moses and the prophets concerning the Lord Jesus. He declared that the twelve tribes were instantly serving God night and day. This leaves no room for any gentiles. Did God make gentiles aware that He exists during that time? Yes, He did. Did God call them to Himself? No, it is not written that they had any hope or calling apart from Israel and therefore, the OT kingdom which belongs to Israel.

After Israel takes her place amidst the nations, no longer having the preeminent position Paul writes in his first letter to gentiles, Eph ch2:

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.

What seems to me to be lacking in the mind today is that these very gentiles who were standing in the outer court, ready to receive some word on what God was doing during the Acts, NEVER were allowed to pass what is called the middle wall of partition. They NEVER saw the Tabernacle. NEVER saw ANY items of the Tabernacle.

The Middle Wall. The epistle to the Hebrews, it will be remembered, uses the figure of the "rent veil". The epistle to the Ephesians uses the figure of the "broken middle wall", the one, the veil, setting aside the law of type and shadow, under which "the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest" (Heb. 9:8), the other, the middle wall, setting aside certain "ordinances" which caused and perpetuated "enmity".

The enmity of Ephesians 2:15 which had been abolished, and which was symbolized by the middle wall of partition, was not a middle wall between the believer and his God, the veil in the temple symbolized that, but a middle wall that separated believers who were Gentiles from believers who were Jews, the enmity being the fruit, not of sin, but of "the law of commandments contained in ordinances". First let us be sure that we appreciate the figure of the middle wall. Josephus says:

"When you go through the cloisters, into the second temple, there was a PARTITION made of stone all round, whose height was three cubits; its construction was very elegant. Upon it stood pillars, at equal distances from one another . . . some in Greek and some in Roman letters, that no foreigner should go within that sanctuary" (Josephus, Wars, v. 5.2).

The churches teach that the abolishing of this middle wall allowed equal access, maintaining that the kingdom teachings during the Acts is doctrinal truth for today, but this simply cannot be truth.

Try to find any teachings by Moses and the prophets which does not have Israel's kingdom hope in view, and there will be no such findings. Those gentiles were made partakers of Israel's spiritual things, but had no hope apart from Israel.

Upon Israel's dismissal at the end of Acts, after all Israel had heard and rejected the kingdom offer which was then an 'at hand' kingdom where the coming of the Lord was expected to bring this kingdom to earth as it is, from heaven, the Lord gives the apostle a new commission, sending Paul for the first time to the gentiles with a doctrine of hope having no dependence upon Israel.

"For to create in Himself of the twain one new man".

Let us examine the word "twain", duo. This Greek word is translated "two" over one hundred times in the N.T. This is but a variation in the wording, for the word "both" has been used twice already, in Ephesians 2:14,16 and reappears once more in verse 18. Further, the word "twain" and the word "both" have the article. It is some specific company that is in view, who can be called "the both" and "the two". The two companies have already been named, they are believing Gentiles and believers of Israel, called the uncircumcision and the circumcision, and these "two" were never so united even during the dispensation that followed Pentecost that they could be likened to "one body". The figure which the Apostle employs rather emphasizes the inequality that obtained, even when Romans was written, for he speaks of the Gentile believer in Romans eleven, as a wild olive graft contrary to nature into the true olive tree. This figure continued to represent the subordinate position of the saved Gentile up to the end of the Acts.

The new creation of Ephesians two did not suddenly turn wild olives into cultivated ones, the truth being rather that all that belonged particularly to Israel was suspended. The olive tree was cut down to the roots, the hope of Israel deferred, and a new dispensation hitherto unrevealed and unsuspected, called the dispensation of the Mystery, was made known. This is something entirely new. Israel as lsrael has no place in it. A believing Israelite could of course become a member of this newly-created company, but not as an Israelite. The Jew must leave behind his promises, his relation to the New Covenant, his descent from Abraham, his circumcision, even as Paul had done. The Gentile must leave behind his alienation, his uncircumcision, his promiseless and hopeless state, and "the both" must be made one, "the two" must be created one new man, in which all distinction of every kind ceases to exist, "so making peace".

Instead of this divided company of believers where the Jew was first, where the Gentile was but a wild olive graft contrary to nature, we have the creation of the two, in Himself, of one new man. In this new company neither Jew nor Gentile as such can be discovered; the Church of the One Body is not something carried over from earlier days, remodelled and reconstituted in order to give the Gentile a better place in it.

It is a new creation, in which all previous privileges and disadvantages vanish, in which there are blessings hitherto unknown to any son of Adam. To teach that all that Ephesians 2: 15 reveals is that the Gentile had been promoted to an equality with the Jew is such an understatement as to be virtually a contradiction of truth. The calling into which these hitherto divided Jews and Gentiles now found themselves is unrelated either to Abraham, the New Covenant, or the New Jerusalem. Neither Jew nor Gentile had hitherto been associated with a cal1ing that went back to before the foundation of the world, or went up so high as to be "far above all" where Christ sits. This calling is unique, and to attempt to see allusions to 0ld Testament types is to prevent the essential newness or uniqueness of this calling from being perceived.

It is in Ephesians, chapters one through three that God has given a new doctrine for this newly created called out company who has, not on earth as it is in heaven for their hope, but called to be seated with Christ in the heavenly places far above all, in glory, the citizenship being saints in the light of the holiest of all.

When we cling to the hope of the Acts, it is because no one has helped us to understand there has been set forth this new doctrine abrogating the old.

New doctrine = new practice.

It is impossible to please God with out faith. In order to put into practice that which pleases God, it becomes imperative to receive the doctrine set forth after Israel was set into her time of abeyance.

Please prayerfully study that doctrine which Satan does not desire for you to receive, which rests in Ephesians 1-3. Then study what form of practice constitues that worthy walk resulting from this doctrine in chapters 4-6. Colossians follows hard upon this doctrine and practice as do the other prison epistles.

I am praying without ceasing that, That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject:

When I read in the OT about strangers meaning to me to be Gentiles, tha even then God was allowing the two to be one.

Exd 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exd 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Lev 19:34 [But] the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I [am] the LORD your God.

So then are not Israels promises to those strangers to the Jews who were grafted in to that olive tree also?

And the NT is the promises made to the strangers of the Gentiles who are grafted in to this olive tree?

The two olive trees that stand before God in revelation... Idea

I see the OT as doctrine that is for the body/physical. Things we see, hear, touch, taste, smell. whether they are above the earth/our universe,
under the earth/our oceans and seas, or in the earth/the earth itself.

And that the NT is doctrine that is for the body/spiritual. Things that we percieve with the mind and heart and thoughts.

That when we combine them both together the promises are for both the physical whole and the spiritaul whole..making One Whole Complete body and mind.

And that all these things are shown to us as truths whether they be Jew or Gentile, Heaven or Earth, good or evil, positive or negative...

and that when all these things are comined togethe, whether 2 x 2 or as a whole, they create an energy, a Soul, a power, that comes from God himself.

I was wondering why the 7's in the Ark...and it's 3 pairs of 2 with 1 to stimulate it.

I can;t explain that very well, but I know what I mean lolol...

So anywhooo
I see Gods remptive plan from day 1 and he shows us just how He works, by creating the energy that is Life.

So if you take away 1 or the other than the energy isn't really pure, but becomes lopsided, leaning more towards the negative or the positive, or whichever has the more weight at the time..or quantity..

So at times evil rules and at times good rules, because something is out of balance. But if we have equal amounts of both than it becomes a perfect energy. Now that energy can lean to one side or the other.
If all is good on both sides then the energy becomes pure Good.
and if all is bad on both sides then the energy becomes pure Evil.

And good and evil are always vying for the throne.

So if evil is both pride and vanity combined, the good is humility and average. or all things common.

(I don't know a word that's opposite vain.. Confused or disgusted

so I came up with average).

So I see the promises of an earthly kingdom and the promise of a heavenly kingdom...as the same kingdom all in all.

A new heaven/pure and perfect mind...A new earth/pure and perfect body,
together creating a pure and perfect Kingdom/Soul/New Man.

epouraniois · Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:46 am Post subject:

You don't think Israel was a called out and seperated nation? Seperated in every way? In their dress they weren't allowed to mix materials. In their food they could not mix fat or blood with meat. In their posterity they were not permitted to marry outside their tribes.

All of this was to show to them that they were to be seperate.

Lev 20:24 But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.

Exd 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

The strangers had to become a Jew in order to have this one law. It is necessary to know the differences between law, ordinance, and statutes, but to the Jew they were all one thing.

In order for a person to learn of God, they had to become a Jew. If you know Jews personally, you can ask them and they will tell you that when a person becomes a Jew, they are seen as a new born baby, and raised as a Jew from that point forward.

During the Acts they were following Paul around saying, I am paraphrasing here:

look, Paul is lying to you, it is written right here, you cannot have Israel's spiritual things unless you take on the full burden of the Lord, you must be circumsized, you must remember the sabbath, &c, &c.

So in Acts 15 thet held great concil at the synagague, and it was good to the holy Spirit to lay no greater burden than four necessary things upon them:

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

But the last thing they were was one. The gentiles were not permitted to even see into the synagogue because of this middle wall of partition.

Paul reminds them that they were without God in the world during the Acts, but now Christ broke down the middle wall of partition (Eph 2) so making peace, destroying the enmity.

Gentiles and Jews were enemies because of the law:

Peter said to the gentile Cornilius:

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

dividing and severally is the opposite of the oneness and unity revealed in the Prison Epistles. During Acts the members are even compared to the head, but in the mystery body the Lord Christ Jesus is the head.

If you do not believe that this mystery was hid in God, but that it was revealed earlier, then perhaps the best thing you could do for me would be to put together a list of all the similarities between the church of the Acts where the hope was partaking of Israel's things, and the mystery body whose inheritance is in heavenly places?

But I have done this, and there aren't any. Oh sure, there are non dispensational similarities, such as all have sinned and are in need of a Saviour. But that is about it. There isnt' really any similarities.

lone-traveler · Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:03 am Post subject:

epouraniois · Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject:

All excellent questions, and the answer is that God spake to various people at various times with different messages. Through Genesis 11 till the end of Acts, every thing that is recorded has to do with an earthly peoples. There are the Hebrew tribes, and then there is everyone else.

Paul writes that the gentiles and the Jews were enemies during that time, but beloved. We read there was a reason to permit the non Jew for hearing the word of truth without taking on the burden of the law. We read of this reason one thing that cannot be outside of our view, for it is ever in the mind of God during that time, and that is, the whole period covered was for the hope of Israel.

God clearly states over and over and again that He does not have a change of mind. That He has blessings for an earthly people to be blessed by the seed of Abraham in the earth.

Therefore, this must be true.

And we also learn of the overcoming remnant who look for a better country that is a city which is heavenly. This city is described in both the OT and NT's, and has to do again with overcomers of whom it is written.

This then, must also be true. Unless the heavenly city is what is meant by the earth, then these are two spheres where blessings are poured forth by He who is able to satisfy to the uttermost, and where both companies of believers are reckoned as being the firstborn through the adoption.

And then when all looked hopeless, when all looked as if Satan had thwarted God's redemptive plan of the ages the risen Lord then sends an apostle to the nations speaking of a chosen body from before the foundation of the world.

Why do I say it looked hopeless? Because from the beginning Satan has tried to do his best to do away with the coming seed, to do away with the prophecies written in our great book of truth. And if Satan could just prevent Christ from being born, and finally, if Satan could just prevent the Jews from having the aftermind to turn again back to Christ, then the plan written in the OT would be foiled.

But God reveals, after Acts, to the apostle who was then sent to the nations, that He had kept something a secret. Then this secret is revealed

The church which is the body of Christ is revealed.

And their hope is in heavenly places. Not on the earth. Israel is not present in this company, it is specifically, we read, written to gentiles.

And this too, because it is written, must have it's rightful place, and we must make wide berth for Israel to fulfill all that remains unfulfilled in her.

During the Acts it was always to the Jew first.

There's is the earthly inheritance where in resurrection, the Jew will still be first, will still go forth and teach and heal the nations.

The church has a citizenship that is heavenly. In this way God is building a family and a habitation in the earth and in the superheavenlies.

Paul warned that we each need to stay in the calling in which we are called.

It is written that the masses are deceived, that people shall run to and fro for truth and not find it. I believe this is due to a failure to rightly divide the word of truth. But that's just me.

I say we are given all we need to acknowledge God's interpretation, and He has already divided His word into groups and spheres which encompass more than just the earth.

So your questions and observations are most excellent. If God has said that some have hope on earth, then names them, and says some have hope in the heavenly city, then names them, and also says here is something new, unheard of in Scripture and it is about the heavenly family far above all heavens, then names them, are we to say no, that is not my understanding?

Well, it is human nature to do so, we in truth, if we are honest, we know we can never have God's understanding, and we should never lean upon our own.

What we can have is acknowledgment and the earning to be ever yielding to all that is written, discerning those things which differ, not mixing them with things of anothers calling and hope.

All hope is sure, and all God' servants were sent ones to a specific people with a specific message, and we are never left to guess or wonder what these things be.

God has given us His interpretation. If the gentiles were only hearing so that Israel would be provoked, then that is the reason, and there is none other, for it was the kingdom offer for the hope of Israel.

Acts 28:28

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

It was during this time that three of the Prison Epistles were written, 2 Timothy was written sometime later, and them the apostle writes that it is this mystery, or secret, which completes the word of God. It must be so. It is written.

It therefore behooves us to learn of the various hopes and callings, for they are given without any change of mind on the part of God. God will take up His mighty purpose using Israel as king priests, and the nations will be healed, and the purpose for the heavenly family will also take their place wherein the calling in which their hope resides.

All of this resides entirely in the Lord Christ Jesus, and no one will be without the great God and our Saviour, for He is not bound by constraints of time and space, and one day there will be time no more. It is simply beyond us, yet it is written and therefore true. All of it.

Whatis the hope of your calling remains the question for the mystery body revealed after Acts closes the kingdom gates leaving Israel who takes her place amidst the nations "without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim" - Hos 3:4

Hos 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

I have asked thousands of people to make a list, so far no one has done this but those who already knew the only list that can be made is the list concerning those things that differ.

Perhaps you would do the most excellent study and list all the things that are the same in the Prison Epistles and those written during Acts? I would love to pour over every word of every verse to search and see. I am ready to acknowledge the reasons God has given different instructions to different peoples at different times.

When the Bible opens, we find God speaks:

Directly Himself to individual men:
Adam-Noah-Abraham
Genesis

By The Prophets:
From Moses till John the Baptist:
Unto the Fathers {1949bc - The Kingdom Promised - 4bc}

The Prophets had spoken "unto the fathers" i.e. the ancestors of the Hebrews "by the Prophets", not by the Priests. The Priests were to offer sacrifices and teach the Hebrews what God had said by the Prophets.

Exodus to Malachi thru Mathew 1.1 - 3.12

By His Son:
"Unto Us Hebrews" {28or29ad} - The Kingdom At Hand

The Son had Spoken Unto "us Hebrew", not us Gentiles. In "these days" of that dispensation, not the days of which we now live. God speaking by His Son was the subject of prophecy {Duet. 18.15-19}. He spoke concerning the Kingdom. He only "began" this wonderous speaking; it ended with His death.

Mathew - Mark - Luke - John

By Them That Heard Him:
The 12 Men of Israel to the Jew only {Acts 2} and Paul to the Jew first and then to the Gentile As Wild Olive Grafts {Kingom Postponed}

The ministry of the Lord in the four Gospels was carried on by the Twelve after the ascension. There was no break, not was there a new testimony beyong the fact that Christ was risen from the dead. They were commissioned to repeat and confirm what the Son had said.

In order to understand the apostolic ministry you must fisrst understand what the Lord's ministry was {Matt. 4.17}.

The apostles confined themselves into CONFIRMING what they aheard the Lord say from the start. This proclamation continued through the Acts - It came to a head at Acts 28.24-28}.

Book of Acts and Epistles of that Period - Hebrews, 1&2 Thess. 1&2 Cor. Galatians, Romans

By Paul the Prisoner:
To The Church Which is His Body - NOW

The Kingdom now is in abeyance. God spoke again this last time through Paul the prisoner. The speaking was to Gentiles apart from Israel. God makes known His great secret, the Mystery, Not by the Old Testament Prophets, not by His Son, not by those who heard Him, but by the Prisoner of the Lord. The unsearchable riches of Christ was revealed exclusively by the "ambassador in bonds". Present Truth is found in the "form of sound words". Christ is now amoung the gentiles.

Today, God speaks to us through His Scriptures of truth which were penned by Paul the prisoner. Paul who was the Apostle of the gentiles, was given TWO CALLINGS for them. Only one of them is in view today. Failure to recognize this has resulted in perpetual controversy about churches, and ordinances, and gifts.

Prison Epistles:
Ephesians, Philippians, Coossians, Philemon, 1 Timothy, Titus, 2 Timothy

DIRECTLY HIMSELF:
Tribulation and the Kingdom

When the present dispensation is over, God will speak again. He well speak directly Himself.

Psalms 50.1
Hebrews 12.25