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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: Crazy Muslims |
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Wow, check this out:
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20060603/suspects_court_060603/20060603?hub=TorontoHome
Three thousand kilograms of ammonium nitrate!
I live in downtown Toronto and I ride the subway all the time. It's a pretty weird feeling suddenly being on the front lines in the war on terror...
New York,
Washington,
Madrid,
London,
and Toronto was supposed to be next...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I was reading this yeaterday and was going to post something about it... looks like you beat me to the punch here.
I'm wondering if this changes your perspective on the War on Terror any? Meaning, I think you mentioned in another thread that the war in Iraq was one of... um... I can't remembber the exact word you used.. convience seems to fit... sorta...  (seems I fighting another bout of CRS).
Anyway, the War on terror is much bigger than just Iraq... Afghanistan... Iran... etc... it is worldwide to include the countries you listed. Personally, I'd rather the flashpoint of this war to be 8000 miles away in Iraq... but this brings things quite a bit closer... makes it a little more personal. Does it change your perspective some?
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | I was reading this yeaterday and was going to post something about it... looks like you beat me to the punch here.
I'm wondering if this changes your perspective on the War on Terror any? Meaning, I think you mentioned in another thread that the war in Iraq was one of... um... I can't remembber the exact word you used.. convience seems to fit... sorta... (seems I fighting another bout of CRS).
Anyway, the War on terror is much bigger than just Iraq... Afghanistan... Iran... etc... it is worldwide to include the countries you listed. Personally, I'd rather the flashpoint of this war to be 8000 miles away in Iraq... but this brings things quite a bit closer... makes it a little more personal. Does it change your perspective some? |
I've always been a big fan of the War on Terror. I think that radical Islam is extremely dangerous, and that it should be dismantled / disbanded / destroyed in any way possible.
I just never agreed that the war in Iraq had anything to do with the war on terror. Saddam was a secular leader that hated Osama and his ilk almost as much as we do. He was not a Muslim fundamentalist by any stretch of the imagination. It would have been much better to use all of the resources that went into the Iraq war, and use them to actually fight against real terrorists.
In short, I think the war on terror and the war in Iraq are very different things.
But to answer your question, yes, these latest developments here in Toronto have affected my outlook a bit, since everything is so close to home. I'm even more against radical Islam than I ever was before. It gave me a tiny glimpse of what the Israelis have to put up with.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Trinity1
Emperor of the World
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 3123
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
In short, I think the war on terror and the war in Iraq are very different things. |
I think we disagree on this as the two are indeed tied together... you hit the nail on the head when you wrote this:
| Quote: | | But to answer your question, yes, these latest developments here in Toronto have affected my outlook a bit, since everything is so close to home. I'm even more against radical Islam than I ever was before. It gave me a tiny glimpse of what the Israelis have to put up with. |
The Israeli's have been putting up with this crap for 30 plus years now. The Wars up to 73' proved fruitless to the Islamic peoples. So... terror starts... not terroism as a whole as the has been around for pretty much of all recorded history... but terrorism against Israel.
With the PLO... Arafat... Islamic Jihad... Hamas... all of these elements are supported by nations. Look at Syria and their involvement in Lebanon. But Iraq... Saddam was paying the families of the Hamas suicide bombers 10K to 25K each depending on how many Jews their family member killed. That we know... for sure. That is only one of the reasons justifying getting Saddam out. There are others... but this was one I think we can agree there is no question about.
_________________
Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them..."
‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’ Sir Arthur Keith |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinity1 wrote: | | That is only one of the reasons justifying getting Saddam out. There are others... but this was one I think we can agree there is no question about. |
You don't have to convince me that Saddam was an evil guy. I totally agree with that. He was a monster. What I do question is the Bush administration's strategies and motives. The war in Iraq has cost hundreds of billions of dollars, tens of thousands of lives, and it inflamed radical Islam rather than destroyed it. On top of that, it strengthened Iran and made it more bold. Iran right now with their nuclear ambitions is pretty much EXACTLY what Bush said Iraq was before the invasion. I just can't see how it was worth it. Maybe if they would have found WMDs, then there'd be an argument to be made, but as it stands it seems like it was a total waste and a big mistake.
If they would have taken the resources that went towards the Iraq war and used them to hunt down and kill all the top Al Quaeda guys as well as radical Muslim leaders everywhere, that would have been money well-spent.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Crazy Muslims |
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Crazy Muslims, eh? You're so quick to stick the label of 'crazy muslims' on them, i wonder what you would think of me if i were to state every other criminal or terrorist as a 'Crazy Christian', 'Crazy Athiest', 'Crazy Jew', Crazy Hindu'?
| Quote: | | Three thousand kilograms of ammonium nitrate! |
Where in the heck does a person get 3 tonnes of the stuff from?! Who else but the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (according to some Canadian paper). I mean what do you expect if you hand 3000kg of the stuff on a plate to 'suspected' terrorists? That they'd decline with a thank you.
| Quote: | I live in downtown Toronto and I ride the subway all the time. It's a pretty weird feeling suddenly being on the front lines in the war on terror...
New York,
Washington,
Madrid,
London,
and Toronto was supposed to be next... |
Great! You and people like you have already made up your minds on this one - how every can a fair and just trial take place with people so quick to set things in stones.
-Tiptronic |
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Pondering
King of the Jungle
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1512
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Tiptronic,
I think I understand your point, but when you catch Col Mustard in the Library with a bloody candlestick standing over a dead body, it's pretty good odds he did it...
but maybe he didn't...that's why we have trials in the West. But it looks, and I stress looks, like these dudes are "guilty as sin" 
Finally, I think that if a bunch of Christian anti-abortionists had conjured up a similar plot, P#s would have titled the thread "Crazy Christians"...labels have a use...just because someone uses them, doesn't make them "racist"....
me personally, I woulda said "Krazy Kanucks"..but I'm funny like that
_________________
Links of note:"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong...You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” - Ronald Reagan |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Crazy Muslims |
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| Tiptronic wrote: |
Crazy Muslims, eh? You're so quick to stick the label of 'crazy muslims' on them,
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Just to be clear, I am by no means saying that ALL Muslims are crazy. I am only refering to the violent fundamentalists.
As for so quick... These guys had 3 metric tonnes of ammonium nitrate, all sorts of automatic weapons, bomb timers and detonators, and were planning to decapitate Canada's Prime Minister. The label of 'crazy Muslims' fits.
| Tiptronic wrote: |
i wonder what you would think of me if i were to state every other criminal or terrorist as a 'Crazy Christian', 'Crazy Athiest', 'Crazy Jew', Crazy Hindu'?
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I guess it would depend on the examples you gave. Certainly there are crazy people in each of those groups. What sets crazy Muslims apart is their apparent willingness to use terror and kill innocent civilians in urban settings. Of all the other groups you have mentioned, none of their fringe elements are NEARLY as quick to resort to terrorist attacks as the fringe Muslims are.
| Tiptronic wrote: |
| Quote: | | Three thousand kilograms of ammonium nitrate! |
Where in the heck does a person get 3 tonnes of the stuff from?! Who else but the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (according to some Canadian paper). I mean what do you expect if you hand 3000kg of the stuff on a plate to 'suspected' terrorists? That they'd decline with a thank you.
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Yeah, the RCMP made them do it. It was entrapment. You really shouldn't be making any excuses for them. Of all people, Muslims should be the first to condemn them. It's crazy idiots like this that make the West (irrationally) hate Muslims, and when normal Muslims (ie. you) stick up for them, it makes you look bad. You shouldn't do it.
Put another way, when you don't condemn crazy Muslim fundamentalist terrorist-types, it makes it look like you don't condemn them. And when you make excuses for them, it makes it look like you support them. You REALLY, REALLY, shouldn't be doing this. You should definitely hang those bastards out to dry; they are hurting you personally WAY more than they are hurting Westerners, and they don't deserve your support.
| Tiptronic wrote: |
Great! You and people like you have already made up your minds on this one - how every can a fair and just trial take place with people so quick to set things in stones. |
Actually, it looks like CSIS and the RCMP have quite a bit of evidence...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: Crazy.....er...people? |
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Take a look here, at the 'News Brief' section, look carefully, you could be forgiven for missing it. "BNP link to explosives charges"
Story here
Ex-BNP man faces explosives charge
By Andrew Hewitt
A FORMER British National Party member has been accused of possessing the largest amount of chemical explosives of its type ever found in the country.
Robert Cottage, 49, of Talbot Street, Colne, appeared before Burnley magistrates charged with possession of an explosive substance.
Cottage was charged under the Explosives Substances Act 1883 on Monday night after forensic experts searched his home, allegedly discovering chemical components which could be used to make explosives.
Police sealed off Cottage's home last Thursday and finished their search at the weekend.
Officers claim that their find is the largest haul of chemicals of its kind discovered in someone's home in the country.
However, the exact nature of the chemicals has not been revealed.
David Leach, representing Cottage made no application for bail.
Magistrates remanded Cottage in custody and referred his case to Burnley Crown Court where he is due to appear later this month.
Cottage, a sub-contracted driver for Lancashire County Council, stood for the BNP in the May elections in the Vivary Bridge ward of Colne.
l Police were yesterday searching a house in Trent Road, Nelson, where a 62-year-old-man was arrested in connection with the investigation.
He was last night being quizzed by detectives.
11:42am Wednesday 4th October 2006
If someone hadnt brought this up on another forum, I would never have known about it. This was the largest stash of chemicals that could be used to make a bomb ever found in a house in the UK. Yet it was hardly, if very briefly mentioned on mainstream news.
According to another obscure site,
| http://www.pendletoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=8&ArticleID=1806619 wrote: | Mrs Christiana Buchanan, who appeared for the prosecution in Jackson's case, alleged the pair had "some kind of masterplan".
She said a search of Jackson's home had uncovered rocket launchers, chemicals, BNP literature and a nuclear biological suit. |
Why? Is it because these guys are white and from the BNP? If they were Muslim, you wouldnt hear the end of it? Were you aware of this news?
Shocking.
Oh and P1234567890, they would be referred to as "Crazy Christians/Athiests/Agnostics" or what? Hmm, who knows  |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Crazy.....er...people? |
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| Tiptronic wrote: |
Why? Is it because these guys are white and from the BNP? If they were Muslim, you wouldnt hear the end of it? Were you aware of this news?
Shocking.
Oh and P1234567890, they would be referred to as "Crazy Christians/Athiests/Agnostics" or what? Hmm, who knows |
It sounds like they are crazy nationalists. But you're certainly right that there is a double-standard in the reporting.
Of course, part of it is that nobody is worried about the BNP conquering the world, but people really are worried about Islam conquering the world, however silly that may be.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Tiptronic
Kitten
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 143
Location: On the net
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Crazy.....er...people? |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Tiptronic wrote: |
Why? Is it because these guys are white and from the BNP? If they were Muslim, you wouldnt hear the end of it? Were you aware of this news?
Shocking.
Oh and P1234567890, they would be referred to as "Crazy Christians/Athiests/Agnostics" or what? Hmm, who knows |
It sounds like they are crazy nationalists. But you're certainly right that there is a double-standard in the reporting.
Of course, part of it is that nobody is worried about the BNP conquering the world, but people really are worried about Islam conquering the world, however silly that may be. |
I think I have made my point.
The largest stash of bomb making chemicals ever found in the UK is definately something to worry about, regardless whose found with it. Your right, its the hype towards Islamic extremism that means they'd rather show Muslim extremists being found with bombs than BNP members - because Islam bashing sells news.
They raided Forest Gate, shot an innocent man and then found nothing, but it made headlines for days and weeks on end. Nobody has even heard of this event. If it was a Muslim in that position, they'd be charged under the Terrorism act, yet these fellas are charged under the Explosive Substances act. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8324
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Crazy.....er...people? |
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| Tiptronic wrote: |
I think I have made my point.
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If you think that you're the only one claiming that the media is overconcerned with the danger that Islamic terrorists pose, then you're wrong...
I think that Terrorism is a tiny problem. (That could of course change if terrorists ever get their hands on a nuclear bomb.)
By contrast, the spread of Islam is a real problem that people should actually be worried about.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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