Separation between church & state is good for churches!

P1234567890

Religious people often aren't too fond of the separation between church and state. For example, when the issue of teaching intelligent design in public high schools comes up, the people against it inevitably cite that that would be violating the separation of church and state.

Naturally, the people who want ID taught don't like this, and consequently they aren't too fond of the separation between church and state.

However, something that they're not taking into account is that the separation between church and state is a double-edged sword in the sense that it doesn't just keep the church from meddling in government, but it also keeps the government from meddling with the church.

Religious people everywhere should be celebrating the fact that the government can't mess with their religion, because if there were no separation, you can be absolutely sure that the government would be messing around with religion ALL THE TIME. It's bad enough that politicians falsely invoke the name of Jesus Christ during elections, but if there were no separation, the state would be actively be meddling in church doctrine.

Just look at countries where there is no separation. Iran is a good example. In Iran, the state meddles meddles with church affairs quite regularly. For example, there is nothing in the Koran about destroying Israel, but the Iranian government for political reasons is opposed to Israel, and therefore makes sure that anti-Semitism is promoted in church.

With a proper separation, the religious leaders wouldn't be getting their marching orders from politicians.

In short, the point I'm trying to make is that the separation between church and state is good for EVERYONE!

lone-traveler · Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:06 am Post subject:

so your saying...

render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, and unto God what is God's.

peace
lone

P1234567890 · Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 8:56 am Post subject:

I guess a further argument to be made is that Jesus certainly was not political at all. He was a purely spiritual man, and never got involved in petty political issues. He never tried to grab political power or start a war or anything like that.

By Jesus' own example, it should be clear that religion and politics should not be mixed. Bringing politics into religion perverts it, and therefore has no place in it.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

i agree p38....and i think one of the worst things for the church is the idea of federally funded faith based initiatives...

any church will be the gov.'s puppet the minute they start taking their money....i think the gov should not fund churches...in anyway...churches and their programs must be self supporting...in order to be free...if they cannot function on their own...they should fold...

also,
i can't stand the idea of bush or clinton signing a bill that contains a prayer written by kennedy and lott...for my children to have to recite in schools...

children should be taught to pray at home...by their fathers and mothers...if they want them to pray...

and one more thing,
my son is forced to say the pledge at school...i really don't like that at all...it is nothing more than a prayer written by the state to the state...that has no place in schools....

P1234567890 · Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

FFT · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 12:40 am Post subject:

Ana · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:50 am Post subject:

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

From another outsider's position.

Nationalism is never good, it is one of the most prolific brewing grounds for war, mix in fevrent religious messages, and you soon will have a war.

Unfortunatley, this seem to be true all to often.

Fake

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

i can't see me as a CHRISTian saying the pledge with or without the "under GOD" line in it...it is a prayer to the state...swearing an oath to it...my life is already pledge...i cannot swear it to another...how is it different than bowing to an idol of gold at the appointed time?...."ok class...let's stand and say the pledge...put your hand over your heart"...
training them from the first grade to die for the state...

p38
i like what you said about a substandard education and faith...that was good stuff and full of wisdom...

P1234567890 · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject:

bwokg · Tadpole Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 21

There is nothing wrong with patriotism. Between these borders lives the freedom the rest of the world covets. We have freedom and stability because our constitution is a fixed contract between the governed and those who are allowed to govern. Pride in our national adhearance to the rules of this contract is laudable and desireable and is why we are the most prosperous country in the entire world. Pledging alegence to the simbol of our country reminds us that we must remain on guard against those who desire to erode our freedom by narrowing our freedom of speach, by frouning on our references to almighty God. LIberty for all, justice for all, states joined indivisably, one nation, under God! The drafters of the constitution were, at least scocially, Christians. How can it be said that these people (with, if nothing else, a Christian bent) would be against reffering to God in public, on public occasions? Satan is ever ready to attack the people of God every time his people raise their heads to acknowledge His exsistance, and the more this is tolorated the bolder he becomes.

Ana · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject:

P1234567890 · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: church and state

bwokg · Tadpole Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 21

Who is talking aboot blinking canucks anyway? What do they have to be proud of? They live in the cold and travel alot mostly to warm up. Their scocialist system gives them more free time to travel. We Americans have been here for as long as you have and we are the superpower, Canada is just the girl next door that we look after. Without the U.S. to rely on Canada would have to triple it's military budget, increase it's foriegn aid and grow up into our world where being nice gets you killed.
This forum is about the church and the U.S. constitution, not the wimpy hosers north of us who continually give us a hard time while sneaking down here to work and warm up. If you are from canada try to keep to the subject and not on how much better canadians are than us in the U. S. Keep your views on our patriotism up your great white north.

golfjack · Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: reply

Amen Brother Bwokg.

May God bless, golfjack