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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6096
Location: Memphis
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 Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: | | FFT, do you think that the reason our spacemen blasted off was to get closer to God? Was that just sarcastic? Hard to tell. |
So all they'd have needed to do was believe they were reaching Heaven, and [bad things] would have gone down? |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | FFT, do you think that the reason our spacemen blasted off was to get closer to God? Was that just sarcastic? Hard to tell. |
So all they'd have needed to do was believe they were reaching Heaven, and [bad things] would have gone down? |
So was that a yes or a no?
Flashman
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You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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Roger459
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 709
Location: Pinellas Park, FL, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: |
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GOD IS THE SUPREME JUDGE, and will Judge ALL!
(Acts 17:30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
(Acts 17:31) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
(Gen 6:5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(Jon 1:2) Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
(Gen 19:24) Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
(Luke 13:2-to-5) And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
(Luk 13:3) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(Luk 13:4) Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
(Luk 13:5) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
REPENT =or= PERISH!
(Revelation 20:11-to-15) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
(Rev 20:12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
(Rev 20:13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
(Rev 20:14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Rev 20:15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE GOD? ? ? God will Surely JUDGE YOU = = Except YOU REPENT!
Thanks, Roger R. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1396
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Slightly off topic (maybe), but the other day, someone stated that they considered the Psalms to be "scripture" as much the Gospels....
I stated that I felt the Psalms were songs TO God from man, but someone stated that because they were in the Bible, they were equally "scripture" (I assume meaning that they too are God-breathed/inspired)....anyway,
stumbled across this on another website...
"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
OK...then this means that God knows who is/isn't going to be born/aborted...Doesn't this mean that he's OK with abortion since he doesn't intervene....I mean, he's omnipotent, couldn't he just lock all the doors to the clinic, vaporize all the abortion doctors...something?
Seems to me that God cares about abortion as much as he does about amputees...
_________________
Link to intro post of "who I am"
"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7650
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Pondering wrote: |
Seems to me that God cares about abortion as much as he does about amputees... |
...or children starving or stepping on landmines.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6096
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Or genetic diseases! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7650
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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On a related note...
If I was religious, and if my child was just raped and murdered, and the priest from my church came up to me and told me that "it's what God intended..." or that "the Lord works in mysterious ways...", I'm not sure how I'd react...
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | On a related note...
If I was religious, and if my child was just raped and murdered, and the priest from my church came up to me and told me that "it's what God intended..." or that "the Lord works in mysterious ways...", I'm not sure how I'd react... |
P, I can't believe I'm reading this. I don't know of one person who would say that something like that is what God intended. It shows how little you understand God.
That statement is an abomination in itself.
_________________
You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7650
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: |
P, I can't believe I'm reading this. I don't know of one person who would say that something like that is what God intended. It shows how little you understand God.
That statement is an abomination in itself. |
Come on, you've never heard those phrases being used in books or movies when priests are trying to console bereaved people who have just lost loved ones?!?
If you don't like my quotes, then go ahead and explain how if God is so loving and compassionate (not to mention all-powerful) that He allows children to be abused, and murdered. Explain how He doesn't stop wars from happening. Explain how He doesn't stop children from stepping on landmines.
The evil that happens in the world is such a blatant contradiction with the belief that God is both loving and all-powerful that priests don't have much of a choice of what to say. All they can do is say that "God works in mysterious ways" or something equivalent.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Flashman wrote: |
P, I can't believe I'm reading this. I don't know of one person who would say that something like that is what God intended. It shows how little you understand God.
That statement is an abomination in itself. |
Come on, you've never heard those phrases being used in books or movies when priests are trying to console bereaved people who have just lost loved ones?!?
If you don't like my quotes, then go ahead and explain how if God is so loving and compassionate (not to mention all-powerful) that He allows children to be abused, and murdered. Explain how He doesn't stop wars from happening. Explain how He doesn't stop children from stepping on landmines.
The evil that happens in the world is such a blatant contradiction with the belief that God is both loving and all-powerful that priests don't have much of a choice of what to say. All they can do is say that "God works in mysterious ways" or something equivalent. |
P, I understand what you are saying. But I don't understand why it's so hard to understand that God is not the evildoer. The people who purpetrate these abuses and crimes are. They have "CHOSEN" to do those things, AGAINST God's will. Just because God is Omni-everything, doesn't mean that he is going to put us in a rubber room and a straight-tacket to keep us from doing evil.
It's like you having a son that up until the age of 13 was an awesome, respectful, loving kid. Then in the 8th grade, he learned how to "curse" and what "women were really for" and that only his friends truly understand him... Will you step in and be with him every-waking moment to keep him from doing the things he now wants to do? It won't work. He has to learn from the laws and his conscience - or he's a puppet. He has to learn that there are consequences for his actions, if he doesn't, then the rest of his life will be "hell" for him.
Does that make any sense?
_________________
You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7650
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: |
It's like you having a son that up until the age of 13 was an awesome, respectful, loving kid. Then in the 8th grade, he learned how to "curse" and what "women were really for" and that only his friends truly understand him... Will you step in and be with him every-waking moment to keep him from doing the things he now wants to do? It won't work. He has to learn from the laws and his conscience - or he's a puppet. He has to learn that there are consequences for his actions, if he doesn't, then the rest of his life will be "hell" for him.
Does that make any sense? |
Yes, it makes a lot of sense. I agree that children must be given space so that they can make their own mistakes and learn from them. However, there is a point at which a loving parent MUST step in and 'interfere'. For example, if your kid starts using crack-cocaine, it's probably time to step in, because the dangers FAR outweigh the potential lessons that he / she might learn alone.
Similarly, there is no 'learning' going on when a child steps on a landmine. It would be appropriate for the all-knowing, all-loving God to step in at this point EVERY SINGLE TIME, but clearly that is not what happens...
Which is why all we can say is that "God works in mysterious ways", and hope that's good enough.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
Similarly, there is no 'learning' going on when a child steps on a landmine. It would be appropriate for the all-knowing, all-loving God to step in at this point EVERY SINGLE TIME, but clearly that is not what happens...
Which is why all we can say is that "God works in mysterious ways", and hope that's good enough. |
When a child steps on a landmine it's because some evil bastard dug a hole and stuck one there for the purpose of killing someone. The child's death, while horrible and tragic, should teach us all to stop putting those mindless, senseless killing devices into the ground. That's learning isn't it? I understand that the mines are still being laid, but that's the evil human not caring about what has been learned.
There's a LOT of people out there decrying the idiocy of laying mines. They learned.
_________________
You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7650
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Flashman wrote: |
When a child steps on a landmine it's because some evil bastard dug a hole and stuck one there for the purpose of killing someone. The child's death, while horrible and tragic, should teach us all to stop putting those mindless, senseless killing devices into the ground. That's learning isn't it? I understand that the mines are still being laid, but that's the evil human not caring about what has been learned.
There's a LOT of people out there decrying the idiocy of laying mines. They learned. |
I agree, but the child, if it survives, certainly isn't learning a worth-while lesson. If I were God, and if I were omnipotent, I would never let a single child step on a landmine. And that's me; I'm the first to admit that I'm not all-loving or caring, and my morals certainly aren't perfect. If God is omnipotent and all-loving, then why does He let it happen, if I in my imperfection wouldn't?
The answer is: Because the Lord works in mysterious ways. That's really all you can say to make sense of the situation.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
The answer is: Because the Lord works in mysterious ways. That's really all you can say to make sense of the situation. |
OK, now I'm getting it. Yes, I agree that some things are answered with the phrase, "because God works in mysterious ways". I just don't think this particular scenerio is a mystery.
<I actually started to explain what I mean, but it's really meaningless if you don't have the light of the Spirit of God. I don't mean that as a jab, just a fact. Like I didn't get a lot of stuff about the civil war until I started to study it in the "light" or spirit of it all. So, I'll just have to leave it at that and thank you for some stimulating, thought provoking arguments.>
_________________
You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1396
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Flash,
your explanation for why God allows some children to step on landmines (maybe they'll be rewarded for their sacrifice in the afterlife...) makes sense..."Don't do evil 'cause many suffer"...it follows from Christ's "Love they neighbor" theme...however, it doesn't explain why God allows debilitating birth defects or cancer...what are we supposed to learn from that?
_________________
Link to intro post of "who I am"
"Review for Doubting Christians"
Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs |
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