Ongoing Discussion

changeup2010 · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:29 am Post subject:

First of all, I said I was sorry about not posting anything about my moving, frankly this site was the least of my worries. As for basically saying that I'm not a decent person, you don't even know me. As I said get off your high horse, the world does not revolve around you, composer.

I'm not able to discuss anything right now, no time. When I get a chance I will definitely start up again. I just happened to set up my computer the other day and check out my list of favorites and saw you doggin' on me. So I thought I should defend myself. Only cowards pick on someone when they aren't there. #Mad

Until then....

composer

I posted several times trying to ascertain your whereabouts when you suddenly departed.

The fact that you had more important issues is great for you.

Obviously common courtesy is a low priority to you.

I gave up on you because of your discourtsey but was recently contacted by Nobby to say that you were "looking for me" that is why I responded.

I gave my personal email address composer@tpg.com.au

When you have time to support your current claims, then you may contact me only if you intend to discuss with courtesy and not discourteously terminate it again.

I know certainly well that the world does not revolve around me, but you have made claims that you are unable to support and when I attempt to question you, you keep saying, I'll get back to you but you did not. Then you depart with no explanation.

That is how you treat people, but do not expect that kind of standard from everyone else.
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Composer

admin · Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:06 am Post subject:

*Handing out tissues*
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changeup2010 · Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:02 am Post subject:

All I have to say right now, is that apologies must not be good enough for you. That was the intention of my first post back. Do you want me to fly over and kiss your feet too?

I will support my claims, but I have no time right now. Again I apologize for the inconvenience that I obviously put you through. I have been absolutely swamped traveling for work and moving at the same time, so no, I didn't think of this web site. As for being corteous, like I said you don't even know me. Otherwise you would know that I break my back trying to make everyone happy.

With regard to your email address, I wasn't even online as I discussed earlier, so how could I send you an email, let alone know it was on the site?

Just move on. When I get time, I'll call you out on a different thread.

composer · Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:13 pm Post subject: Just move on?

Let us actually move on then.

I shall await your contact
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Composer

Jatrasis · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:20 pm Post subject:

If you cannot keep on the subject of your own posting, then I would suggest that you take whatever personal contact you want with other people to private messages or e-mail, and leave out all the other junk that is being posted here.

This is a Bible Discussion site, if you were unable to read the title, or understand it. If anyone wishes to personally attack someone else, go to another site to do it. There are many of us here that do not even care to read it, so you are wasting our time.

As to the discussion that you had STARTED here, I reply with a full quote of the Scripture to a previous one you made that was lacking.

We go to the book of James, verses 12 through 17:

12 - Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him.

13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 - But every man is tempted, when h e is drawn away of his OWN LUST, and enticed.

15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

16 - Do not err, my beloved brethren.

17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

[hr]

Now we are brought to Romans 6:21-23:

21 - What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 - But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[hr]

Now, if we combine all of these together, we see that man, by himself, is the root of his own undoing.

It is by his own evil desires and lust that he sins, and those sins lead to death, so man leads to his own death.

Now we see all the wonderful things in this world, all that we cherish, all that we hold true, righteous, and wonderful - all of these come from God. From God comes no evil, but only good.

It is with God that if we become true and righteous servants of, we will have everlasting life. It is through Jesus that we become servants of God, through the Son's death on the cross, and through the waters of Baptism, as was his commandment.

I see where no one failed to mention this, composer. You seem to be picking at semantics in order to prove that you do not seem to believe what you have obviously read many times, because I can see you know your Scriptures, or know someone that knows them well.

Nonetheless, you make a mockery of them, a joke, and that, too, is a sin.

Do you believe that God is THE living God, and that in Him, we receive eternal life?

composer · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:23 pm Post subject:

My own personal studies (I have no one to support me) reveal that Jesus is NOT a God, I belong to no man made organisation although I was a member of the Christadelphians at one time and I agree with much of their teachings (but not quite all, e.g. Marriage & Divorce for one example) but Jesus of Nazareth is the Son and was a man sent by and approved of by the One and Only God, and Jesus came into being for the very first time when "begotten" by God and born of a mortal woman (Acts 2:22) KJS

The trinity is a man made fabrication and unsupported by legitimate Scripture.

Fallen Heavenly angels / demons is ludicrous and unsupported by Scripture.

Jatrasis wrote: Now, if we combine all of these together, we see that man, by himself, is the root of his own undoing.

Composer responds: Couldn't agree more.

By the way, you say that God does not create evil, however that is not what the Bible states. (See Isaiah 45:7)

That "evil" however I see as God's righteous repercussiions / consequences for our mortal disobedience to Him. A Righteous Cause & Effect!
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Composer

Jatrasis · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 8:04 pm Post subject:

No, you quoted me and the Scriptures wrong.

No evil comes from God, only blessings and good. THAT is in the Scriptures, so if you say I am wrong, you are essentially saying that God and the Scriptures are wrong as well, and thusly bringing condemnation down upon yourself.

You are right, though...Jesus is not A God....Jesus is THE God, as a whole, and through your studies, you will find many instances in the Bible that reflect just as I have said, even beginning in Genesis, when God says He will create man in OUR image....sounds like there is more than one included there.....

composer · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 10:36 pm Post subject: to Jatrasis

Jatrasis wrote: Now we see all the wonderful things in this world, all that we cherish, all that we hold true, righteous, and wonderful - all of these come from God. From God comes no evil, but only good.

Composer responds: NB you wrote: . . . From God comes no evil . . .

I misquoted NOTHING incorrectly!

You obviously can not understand what is clearly written by either the Scriptures or by what you write yourself?

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]. (Isiah 45:7) KJS

NB I (GOD) Creat evil . . .

So your claims are false!

jatrasis wrote: No evil comes from God, . . .

The Bible says : - I (GOD) Creat evil . . .

Who is wrong, - Jatrasis is wrong.

Jatrasis wrote: only blessings and good. THAT is in the Scriptures, so if you say I am wrong, you are essentially saying that God and the Scriptures are wrong as well, and thusly bringing condemnation down upon yourself.

Composer responds: You are the one who contradicts God and the Scriptures.

Jatrasis wrote: You are right, though...Jesus is not A God....Jesus is THE God, as a whole, and through your studies, you will find many instances in the Bible that reflect just as I have said, even beginning in Genesis, when God says He will create man in OUR image....sounds like there is more than one included there.....

Composer responds: The elohim (angels) were with God in the Garden of Eden, God + angels = OUR image.

Jesus was not born nor created until Mary gave Birth to him.

If Jesus is the god, then the god was put to death on the cross, if it were only the flesh that were put to death then how come god's flesh can be put to death. You portray a god of godly bits and fleshy bits. Either it is all god or it is not, to destroy one part of god is to expose that alleged gods fallibility.

Clearly the deity of Jesus is a none sense.

Jesus says, "I can of mine own self do nothing: . . ." so your alleged god admits it can do nothing by itself.

Are the alleged 3 persons of the trinity concept in any way "inferior to each other?"

If NOT, then if One part can be killed, then all parts are equitably as vulnerable.
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Composer

Jatrasis · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 1:26 am Post subject:

Take a look at James again, friend, and calm down. If you get this upset at a discussion, you obviously feel like you're backed in a corner.

In the Scripture that you pointed to in Isaiah, evil is actually a losely translated form of the Greek meaning disaster. Disaster which causes people to fear the Lord, for that is what He requires and asks.

You seemingly cannot read something and comprehend it without taking part of it, and twisting another. This causes me to believe that you contrive your own beliefs out of convenience for yourself, and not for the truth in them.

You cannot take one part without reading another. Stop picking what parts you like to hear, and actually read all of them. You will find that many of your arguments are not found to be true if you would pay attention, and stop trying to pick at semantics.

You take what you see because it is what you see, and not what might be beyond what our senses can actually fathom. Are you saying that Jesus is, indeed, not God's Son as it is stated in the Bible. Are you saying that He did not die for our sins, and that He did not ascend to his place in Heaven, beside His father?

If you are actually saying this, then you are really contradicting yourself over and over and need to take more time to read through the Scripture before you attempt to preach to someone, and try to persuade them to believe in the false way that you do.

composer · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 3:48 am Post subject: To Jatrasis

Jatrasis wrote: 15 Mar 2003 09:26

Take a look at James again, friend, and calm down. If you get this upset at a discussion, you obviously feel like you're backed in a corner.

Composer responds: Your wishful thinking again Jatrasis.

Jatrasis wrote: In the Scripture that you pointed to in Isaiah, evil is actually a losely translated form of the Greek meaning disaster. Disaster which causes people to fear the Lord, for that is what He requires and asks.

Composer responds: You are playing games, I said God brings repercussions / consequences / cause & effect to those who disobey Him but you say disaster, ok!, then God brings disaster on those who oppose Him. Thus Isaiah and all the other Scriptures that clearly state that God causes evil are accurate and your claim has been found incorrect.

Jatrasis wrote: You seemingly cannot read something and comprehend it without taking part of it, and twisting another. This causes me to believe that you contrive your own beliefs out of convenience for yourself, and not for the truth in them.

Composer responds: There goes your vivid imagination again. You have been found wrong, so face up to it. Instead of personal insults, how about sticking to the subject matter.

Jatrasis wrote: You cannot take one part without reading another. Stop picking what parts you like to hear, and actually read all of them. You will find that many of your arguments are not found to be true if you would pay attention, and stop trying to pick at semantics.

Composer responds: I can supply many many more Scriptures that prove that God creates evil, so do you want more of them, or do you accept that you were incorrect on this matter?

If you do not consider yourself incorrect then please show me the Scriptures that say that something else other than God creates this evil and demonstrate that God is mistaken?

Jatrasis wrote: You take what you see because it is what you see, and not what might be beyond what our senses can actually fathom.

Composer responds: Just as I expected, "A Mystery of godliness" again! in lieu of sound Scriptural evidence.

Jatrasis wrote: Are you saying that Jesus is, indeed, not God's Son as it is stated in the Bible.

Composer responds: I and the Scriptures confirm and I have already stated that Jesus was a Man sent by God (Acts 2:22) born by God's Spirit impregnating a Mortal Woman Mary. Jesus is the Son of God but certainly not God the Son.

Jatrasis wrote: Are you saying that He did not die for our sins, and that He did not ascend to his place in Heaven, beside His father?

If you are actually saying this, then you are really contradicting yourself over and over and need to take more time to read through the Scripture before you attempt to preach to someone, and try to persuade them to believe in the false way that you do.

Composer responds: You have ducked, dived and evaded enough, now please answer with Scripture and evidence instead of your empty opinions and emotive fancies. This is a completely New Topic you have raised here, and I will gladly respond later, but first you must deal with issue at hand.

I asked: - If Jesus is the god, then the god was put to death on the cross, if it were only the flesh that were put to death then how come god's flesh can be put to death. You portray a god of godly bits and fleshy bits. Either it is all god or it is not, to destroy one part of god is to expose that alleged gods fallibility.

I also asked: Are the alleged 3 persons of the trinity concept in any way "inferior to each other?"

If NOT, then if One part can be killed, then all parts are equitably as vulnerable.

I am used to this sort of evasion and personal attacks you portray in lieu of coherent answers, so it is nothing new to me.

Please stick to the issues or be honest enough to admit that your current understanding / doctrine has been found wanting and is in fact incapable of coherently supporting itself.

Composer
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Composer

Jatrasis · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 10:20 am Post subject:

Edited...