Hypatia, Dark Ages, Galileo, Darwin... See the pattern?

P1234567890

Christians have a long history of being anti-science. One of the greatest periods in history, the Greek Enlightenment, came to an end once Christianity took over European politics. An era of critical thinking and mental exploration literally reversed itself once Christians took control.

The story of Hypatia is a typical example of Christians trying to destroy scientific thought, and is considered by many scholars to mark the beginning of the dark ages, a whole millennium when Christianity ruled supreme in Europe, but scientific thought and inquiry actually regressed as many of the discoveries made by the Greeks were either destroyed or forgotten.

With the renaissance came some hope, but the Christian church's war on science continued with its censorship and persecution of Galileo, whose clearly correct observations went against Church doctrine.

This anti-scientific streak continues to this day, with many Christians doubting Darwin's theories, even though the mainstream scientific community confirmed and accepted them long ago.

...which brings me to my question for the Christians here who doubts in macroevolution: Can't you see the parallels between your anti-scientific attitude towards macroevolution and the Christian church's traditional anti-scientific bias, including its persecution of Galileo?

How is your fight against macroevolution any different from the Church's fight against Galileo? As far as I can tell, you're just engaging in the same old story of doubting science just because it contradicts church doctrine and Biblical teachings.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.

FFT · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject:

Wikipedia on Hypatia. Seems the Church labelled her a witch and she got murdered.

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject:

Pondering · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1512

P,
I'd also say there is a difference between Christian (believer) and Christian (member of a heirarchical organization of power) [i.e. the Church in Rome]....you're using the two interchangebly.

The Holy Roman Emporer, was about as Holy as I am a green goblin Smile

However, your comments about religious organizations suppressing "heretical" thought is completely correct...
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P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject:

P1234567890 · Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:

Just wanted to bump this topic up to the top, since no anti-evolutionists have responded. I'll repeat my questions:

Can't you see the parallels between your anti-scientific attitude towards macroevolution and the Christian church's traditional anti-scientific bias, including its persecution of Galileo?

How is your fight against macroevolution any different from the Church's fight against Galileo? As far as I can tell, you're just engaging in the same old story of doubting science just because it contradicts church doctrine and Biblical teachings.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.

Jeremy · Not So Newbie Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 9

What you are describing is human nature, not Christianity vs science. Whoever has power tends to resist anything against their current version of the status quo belief system. A supposedly "Protistant" nation will tend to resist all Catholic docrin, even if the doctrin is biblical. A suposedly "Muslem" nation will tend to persecute Christans, even if the Quaran tells them not too. Communist nations tend to descriminate against people of all religions, even though thier is nothing intrinsic about athiesm that should warrent that predjudice.

The "Christian" power's tried to squash opposition by trying to outlaw learning about evolution, and then were finally brought down at the scopes moneky trial, but now things have reversed. I recently saw a documentary about a teacher who was fired because, besides teaching the normal curiculum, he also directed the students to articles in scientific journlas that pointed out problems in current evolutionary theory.

Refusing to listen to the logic behind a scientific idea, just because you think it is opposing your current beliefs is dumb. But so is refusing to listen to contrary points of view becuase your current belief supports it.

P1234567890

45degreeN

There were protestants (while not called that yet) even as early as the 600 AD who didn't fight against science. Read about the Waldensians. All throughout the middle ages there was always a remnant of good Christians teaching scripture and acting in faith. Usually in the remote hills and valleys of what was to become Switzerland. The roman church fought hard against these "outlaws" and lost much to them. It was not Christianity that fought science but the power brokers in Rome that did. Just because the most prominent Roman church turned Pagan early on and didn't ever really represented Christendom. (except to itself)

P1234567890

lone-traveler · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject:

was the finding or discovery of aspirin a scientific discovery?

how many people refuse aspirin?

How many people support NASA?

penicillin?
preservatives?
all medicines are scientific discoveries.

I think it's when it conflicts in one's conscience, then you see denial of a thing.

I have no problem with science until it causes conflict with my conscience of what is right or wrong.

I don't like the idea of trying out medicines and things on animals. But how do we find if they work without killing humans?
I know the arguments on both sides. And it's trying to find that middle ground where it's best for the whole, at the cost of the few.

But wow it gets hard sometimes, because passion plays a part too.
I am an anilmal lover. I have a hard time killing a spider unless it bites me first. forget about mice, rabbits, monkeys...
We claim we came from monkeys well, evolution believes this. So we take our ancestors and experiment on them? causing them harm or deadly diseases which torment them and kill them.

Oh what a hard line it is. And all decisions are usually formed in the heart and mind.
Maybe someday we'll find a way to save life without destroying life in the process.

That's my hope
God Bless
Lone
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Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

P1234567890 · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject:

lone-traveler · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject:

well in what I've been studying lately of Genesis 1 and 2,
could be man comes from beasts, animals, organisms, dirt...whatever..

I wasn't here the day God made the plan. I've been taught to believe certain things a certain way by people. But when you start asking questions within yourself and stop relying on men for answers then you find that hey, maybe there's more to it than meets the eye.

I say look within oneself, and to me this means to pray about it to God. Others may look at is something else..higher power, contemplation...
whatever...learning never ends....

I don't know it's hard isn't it?
Man says don't do it because I say so.
And God says don't do it because it harms another.

It's not about what I want....it's about looking out for the next guy, or anything that we cause harm to.

I'll agree that many religions like to have this control over peoples lives and thoughts...do it because I say so...

I think things are changing.....in me anyways.

I don't do or not do something because someone tells me I should or shouldn't. I listen to my heart my mind and my conscience. God gave them to me for a reason......wonder what for?..

Oh maybe to use them......ya think?

God Bless
Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

P1234567890 · Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:45 am Post subject:

Trinity1 · Emperor of the World Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 3123