Jeremiah 8:8 - Islam Perspective

admin · Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: Jeremiah 8:8 - Islam Perspective

I thought I would open this forum to see how much interest there is in it.

And to kick things off, a fairly volatile site refuting Christianity in favor of Islam.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/que3.htm

Here is the opening quote:
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Introduction: We must first of all know that the entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption! "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!
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What are your thoughts of the passage in Jeremiah 8:8

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

Kind of a thought provoking opening line.

It's not like many of the Muslim leaders have kept the holy scriptures pure and unchanged by their own older, underlying, cultural ways. Smile

imho, Christians, and Muslims alike has corrupted the original texts of the Jews, by adding/changing the ways of the original stories.

Fake

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:40 am Post subject:

As an atheist, I have the advantage of being less biased towards Christianity than the believers here. Nevertheless, I have to say that Christianity is a much better / kinder / gentler religion than Islam. I don't think that this is a very hard case to make:

1. All religions try very hard to oppress women. (Just read some of Roger's statements in the Women's Issues section here to convince yourself that Chritianity isn't innocent in this category, or just read the Bible!) However, Islam consistently treates women terribly. This mistreatment ranges from female genital mutilation in North Africa, to harsh oppression of women in Afghanistan (which didn't stop after the Taliban were defeated) to laws forbidding women to do normal things like drive in Saudi Arabia to Sharia law everywhere. In Christian countries women have some hope of being treated equally, at least by the law. This is not the case in ANY Muslim country.

2. Islam's historical roots are much more violent than Christianity's roots. This can be seen in both the actions of its leaders as well as how the religions spread. Jesus was a mellow, peace-loving, hippie-like pacifict. In contrast, the prophet Mohammed was a warmonger. Christianty spread relatively peacefully, whereas Islam was spread by the sword through military conquest.

3. Modern Muslims are much more violent and tolerant of attacks on civilians than Christians are. Although Muslim scholars often deny that the Koran allows terrorist attacks and suicide bombings, the fact is that such acts have considerable support across the entire Islamic world. If you break down terrorist attacks by religion, the VAST majority are carried out by Muslims. When was the last time you heard of a Christian blowing himself up in a crowded cafe?

Anyways, those are my two cents about Islam.

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

ETA and IRA comes to mind. Their only difference is they tend to use remote contrlo devices when they've blown up things.

There is less (read NO) support in the Koran of FGM than there is support for MGM in the Bible.

The fact is that the NT says not to mutilate boy penises, yet many christians in the US support this barbaric practice.

Fake

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:59 am Post subject:

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

That's your view, many would disagree with it.

The reason you tend to see "muslim" terrorism is because it tend to be more international.

The fact that they are orpressed has no backing in their religion however.

Fake

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject:

Pondering · Lion King Joined: 15 Sep 2005 Posts: 1296

P1234567890 · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

Do you agree that the extreme Muslim terrorist groups are the worst / scariest ones?

admin · Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject:

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

Let's see, a few current terrorist groups that don't base their terrorism on Islam...

Khmer Rouge - Cambodia
FPMR - Chile
ELN - Colombia
FARC - Colombia
AUC-Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia - Colombia
Zviadists - Georgia (The country in Caucasus)
RN - Greece
17 November - Greece
ELA - Greece
FPM - Honduras
Kach - Israel
Kahane Chai - Israel
Aum Shinrikyo - Japan
Chukaku-Ha - Japan
JRA-AIIB - Japan
CIRA - Northern Ireland
LVF - Northern Ireland
RIRA - Northern UIreland
RHD - Northern IReland
Sendero Luminoso - Peru
MRTA - Peru
ABB - Philippines
NPA - Philippines
ALIR/ex-FAR - Rwanda
RUF - Sierra Leone
Euzkadi Ta Askatasuna - Spain
Grupo de Resistencia Anti-Fascista Premero de Octubre - Spain
LTTE - Sri Lanka
PKK - Turkey (though mainly Muslim, their goals are not based on religion)
DHKP/C - Turkey

Fake

P1234567890 · Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:24 am Post subject:

And how many people have they killed in the last, say 5 years?

I'm not saying that all terrorists are Muslims. I'm saying that they are MUCH more vicious and lethal. I don't care about groups that blow up mailboxes in the middle of the night when nobody is around. I only care about groups which purposefully target and kill civilians.

Here is a relevant story:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/04/21/national/w121227D22.DTL

... although they never get around to breaking down the numbers by faith.

In any case, the number of civilians killed by terrorist attacks alone in Iraq probably beats the number of deaths from all of the non-Muslim terrorist groups put together.

Or do you seriously think that non-Muslims kill just as many people as Muslims and that there is just some kind of media conspiracy against reporting these attacks?

splazzatch · Moderator Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 72

Here is an interesting sidelines to this conversation Jerimiah 8:8 reads this way:

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us'? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood."

If you leave it like that surely it seems as the above quote shows it to be an admittance of corruption in the Bible but of course as with anything else CONTEXT is key...This in context is a prophecy to Jerimiah from God telling him to tell the people to stop being jerks.

Drewgie · Kitten Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 144

I find it interesting that you guys debate which religions tend to be more volatile and bloody.

How about the crusades? The inquisition? Witch hunts? Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell? Ok, kidding about that last one, but I still think they're pretty off base. All of these are christian actions that violate the new covenant through Jesus Christ (ie: love your neighbor as you love yourself, love your enemies, turn the other cheek, etc.)

Then as far as Islam, well there are examples everywhere nowadays. But fighting back just as vociferously is like scratching poison ivy, it only gets worse. It really makes me think that no one really listened to Thoreau, Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., Mother Theresa or even Jesus! We laud these people as heroes and Jesus as the saviour but then we as good as spit in their faces!

The main inconsistency I see with this interpretation of Jer 8:8 is found in the Koran itself. I don't know the exact Sura, I'll have to dig up my copy and re-read the whole thing now that this forum has opened up, but it says that the Koran is basically an addendum to the Torah and the Gospel (the Bible as a whole in other words). The only problem is that if this was the case then the Koran is the only addendum I've ever heard of that opposes that which it's "adding" to and "confirming".

Furthermore, in one Sura the Koran says that all the other major religions will be acknowledged by Allah and that Allah will accept the righteous despite their belief systems. Then, a few Suras later it says that followers are to kill all Jews and Christians Shocked

P1234567890 · Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: