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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8322

Location: Victoria, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RevJP wrote:
The problem is that the bible doesn't dictate the actions of judgment of man. It is man's concept that some wrongs are worse than others and it is man's domain to find fault and cast blame on some men for percieved wrongs.


Are you saying that God considers Hitler and an average adulterer to be the same in terms of 'badness'?

RevJP wrote:

I understand what sin is, I know that I committ sin, it is inevitable for I am only human. I try to stay away from judging men as men do for that is not my place. Now when we talk about those who claim the name of Christ then I do have recourse to judge, biblically, and in the case of Mr. Bush I think your assertions are unsupported, unfounded and not scripturally founded.


Bush clearly claimed the name of Christ during his election campaigns. Then he clearly spurned Christ by launching a preemptive war, which clearly violated Jesus' Sermon on the Mount as well as His Sermon on the Plain which I quoted above. How is this argument 'not scripturally founded'?!? This argument is based solidly on scripture!
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
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459ROGER
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Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALL THE SUPPORTERS OF POLITICS = Will ALL have their Opportunity = WHEN WE ALL = = STAND BEFORE GOD = AND ANSWER TO HIM!

***(Romans 3:18) There is = = no fear of God = = before their eyes.

* * (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: = = Fear God, = = and keep his commandments: = = for this is the whole duty of man.
(Ecc 12:14) For God = = shall bring every work into judgment, = = with every secret thing, = = whether it be good, = = or whether it be evil.

* * *(1Peter 4:17) For the time is come that judgment must begin = = at the house of God: = = and if it first begin at us, = = what shall the end be of them = = that obey not the gospel of God?
(1Pe 4:18) And if = = the righteous scarcely be saved, = = where shall the ungodly = = and the sinner appear?

* * * * (2Corinthians 5:10) For we = = must all = = appear before the judgment seat of Christ; = = that every one = = may receive the things done in his body, = = according to that he hath done, = = whether it be good = = or bad.
(2Cor 5:11) Knowing therefore = = the terror of the Lord, = = we persuade men; = = but we are made manifest unto God; = = and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

* * * * *(2Corinthians 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savoir of Christ, = = in them that are saved, = = and in them that perish:
(2Co 2:16) To the one = = we are the savoir of death unto death; = = and to the other = = the savoir of life unto life. = = And who is sufficient for these things?
(2Co 2:17) For we are not as many, = = which = = = Corrupt The Word of God: = = = but as of sincerity, = = but as of God, = = in the sight of God = = speak we in Christ.

* * * *(Revelation 20:11) And I saw a great white throne, = =and him that sat on it, = = from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; = = and there was found no place for them.
(Rev 20:12) And I saw the dead, = = small and great, = = stand before God; = = and the books were opened: = = and another book was opened, which is the book of life: = = and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, = = according to their works.
(Rev 20:13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; = = and death and hell = = delivered up the dead which were in them: = = and they were judged every man = = according to their works.
(Rev 20:14) And death and hell = = were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Rev 20:15) And whosoever = = was not found written in the book of life = = was cast into the lake of fire.

* * * * (Acts 5:11) And great fear [of God] = = came upon all the church, = = and upon as many as heard these things.

* * * (Revelation 22:20-21) He which testifieth these things saith, = = Surely I come quickly. = = Amen. = = Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
(Rev 22:21) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ = = be with you all. = = Amen.

P123456789 = YES, a zygote is life, Ref Psalms 139

PONDERING, Matthew 10:34 is Not Indicative of home wrecking = IF YOU WILL ONLY READ A LITTLE FURTHER = The Answer is in Matt 10:37-38 WHICH REFLECTS = Matt 27:38 -&- Mark 12:29-30 -&- Luke 10:28

Thanks, Roger R.
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Pondering
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Joined: 15 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

459ROGER wrote:


PONDERING, Matthew 10:34 is Not Indicative of home wrecking = IF YOU WILL ONLY READ A LITTLE FURTHER = The Answer is in Matt 10:37-38 WHICH REFLECTS = Matt 27:38 -&- Mark 12:29-30 -&- Luke 10:28

Thanks, Roger R.


No, I know that Jesus wasn't advocating home wrecking...his point was to emphatically say put God/me before all others...The 1st and 2nd Commandment and all that...I just find that chapter odd, as it is more "militant" than most other sermons attributed to Jesus...

Call me crazy, but I like things to be internally coherent and consistent Smile
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lone-traveler
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Joined: 02 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pondering wrote:

Quote:
I just find that chapter odd, as it is more "militant" than most other sermons attributed to Jesus...

Call me crazy, but I like things to be internally coherent and consistent


you are the scale...judgement is in one hand and mercy in the other...
coherancy is in the balance.

lone
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Location: Victoria, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

459ROGER wrote:

P123456789 = YES, a zygote is life, Ref Psalms 139


Psalms 139 just says,

Quote:
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.


Is that the best you've got? Because it doesn't say anything about ensoulment...

In contrast, there is scripture that says that we only become humans with souls when we take our first breath:

Quote:
002:007 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. -From Genesis


So please explain how you are so sure that fetuses have souls.
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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Roger459
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Joined: 25 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

p123456789,

your quote:
In contrast, there is scripture that says that we only become humans with souls when we take our first breath:

THE HOLY SCRIPTURE = NEVER STATES THAT BREATHING CONSTITUTES HUMAN LIFE! THAT IS YOUR WRONG CONCULUSION!

PERHAPS YOU MISSED, the FIRST man was created out of the DUST, as you quoted. BUT YOU FAILED, to say how the SECOND HUMAND WAS FORMED?

ALL OTHER HUMANS AFTER ADAM AND EVE = = WERE FORMEND = BY GOD'S DESIGN = IN THE WOMB!

IF I WERE To use your logic, I would have to say, Breath and Ribs, constitute HUMAN LIFE!

IF I USE ONLY your definition, THEN I WOULD BE FOOLISH! How about the THIRD AND FORTH huamas formed, WHEN AND WHERE? IN THE WOMB = OF COURSE!

FROM THE WOMB! And GOD states where Human Life STARTS, in Psalms 139 = AS PREVIOULSY STATED!

AND YOU, use the term FETUS? That is LATIN = for = = LIVING THING!

IF you are going to use "OTHER THAN ENGLISH" in your Responses = [b]PERHAPS LOOK UP THE DEFINITION = = FIRST?[/b]

A FETUS HAS A SOUL = PSALMS 139!

Thanks, Roger R.
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FFT
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Joined: 26 Mar 2005
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Location: Memphis

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROGER459 wrote:
THE HOLY SCRIPTURE = NEVER STATES THAT BREATHING CONSTITUTES HUMAN LIFE! THAT IS YOUR WRONG CONCULUSION!
Actually, our concept of "souls" likely comes from a mistranslation of a word for "breath."

ROGER459 wrote:
AND YOU, use the term FETUS? That is LATIN = for = = LIVING THING!
Uh, no. It's Latin for "offspring."
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Location: Victoria, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROGER459 wrote:

ALL OTHER HUMANS AFTER ADAM AND EVE = = WERE FORMEND = BY GOD'S DESIGN = IN THE WOMB!


I agree with this statement. In fact, I can't imagine anyone still believing in the stork story.

But where in scripture does it say that ensoulment happens at conception? Where does it say that ensoulment does NOT happen during the first breath?
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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Roger459
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO YOU WANT = = POLITICS? ? ?

How they vote in the United Nations:

Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic States which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:

1. Kuwait votes against the United States 67% of the time
2. Qatar votes against the United States 67% of the time
3. Morocco votes against the United States 70% of the time
4. United Arab Emirates votes against the U. S. 70% of the time.
5. Jordan votes against the United States 71% of the time.
6. Tunisia votes against the United States 71% of the time.
7. Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time.
8. Yemen votes against the United States 74% of the time.
9. Algeria votes against the United States 74% of the time.
10. Oman votes against the United States 74% of the time.
11. Sudan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
12. Pakistan votes against the United States 75% of the time.
13. Libya votes against the United States 76% of the time.
14. Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time.
15. Lebanon votes against the United States 80% of the time.
16. India votes against the United States 81% of the time.
17. Syria votes against the United States 84% of the time.
18. Mauritania votes against the United States 87% of the time.

U S Foreign Aid to those that hate us:
 Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time against
the United States, still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.
 Jordan votes 71% against the United States
and receives $192,814,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.
 Pakistan votes 75% against the United States
and receives $6,721,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.
 India votes 81% against the United States
and receives $143,699,000 annually.

Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes (and gasoline) .

Thanks, Roger R.
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Pondering
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Joined: 15 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROGER459 wrote:
SO YOU WANT = = POLITICS? ? ?

How they vote in the United Nations:



Roger, would you please give the citation for your numbers. I'd like to compare the record of France, Germany, Denmark, Russia, China and a few others to those percentages.

ROGER459 wrote:


Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes (and gasoline) .


Becuase that worked out so well in 1911 and 1939 when the U.S. pursued isolationist policies....

Although, I'm a big support of alternative fuels. Then the mid-east will be as important to the U.S. as Africa is right now...
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Pondering
King of the Jungle



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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm reading this correctly, here's some records of our "friends" for 2004.

(First ones I found)

From http://state.gov/p/io/conrpt/vtgprac/

Read: Country, % agree with US policy/vote

Austrailia: 56.7 %
Belgium: 43.9%
Brazil: 14.9%
Canada: 50%
China 8.8%
Denmark: 44.9%
France: 54.1%
Germany: 44.8%
Haiti: 18.2%
India: 20%
Japan 42.9%...

Highest I saw? Israel: 93.2%

I could go on, but the point I want to make is that every country is going to vote for what is in their national interest...We don't, and I hope to never have, a World Government. The UN is supposed to be a place for folks to work together to achieve mutually beneficial solutions...

I'm just curious as to what your proposal is if the UN disbanded?
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger, the United Nations is a good thing. Is it perfect? NO! But if you can't see that having an institution / world government which allows countries to settle issues without going to war, then you aren't really taking Jesus' teachings about avoiding war and voilence very seriously.

On a separate note, you never answered my question befre: Where in scripture does it say that ensoulment happens at conception? Where does it say that ensoulment does NOT happen during the first breath?
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Location: Victoria, Canada

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROGER459 wrote:

Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes (and gasoline) .


Give me a break! Americans have some of the lowest tax rates in the civilized world! Try living here in Canada for a while; then you'll see what high taxes are! Try living in Sweden, and then you'll REALLY see!

As for the high gasoline prices, blame your president! It was well-known years ago that his energy policy was going to raise prices. It was also well-known that the Iraq war (which never led to any WMDs) was going to cause a rise in oil prices.

You can also blame the big oil companies (who the president is so friendly with) for greedily making record profits while good, hardworking American families have to choose between filling up their cars and paying the rent.

Your complaints against the UN are totally misdirected!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous.
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unschoolmom
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FFT wrote:
ROGER459 wrote:
THE HOLY SCRIPTURE = NEVER STATES THAT BREATHING CONSTITUTES HUMAN LIFE! THAT IS YOUR WRONG CONCULUSION!
Actually, our concept of "souls" likely comes from a mistranslation of a word for "breath."


Doesn't it also have something to do with Plato and dualism?
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FFT
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably, it was Greek influence that did it.
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