Questions to ask Jehovah's Witnesses

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2126

HGP,

Dude,I know you believe Jesus is God.JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS ALREADY!!!

1 Tim 3:16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.’

THIS IS TALKING ABOUT THE SACRED SECRET THAT FOUND IT'S FULFILLMENT IN JESUS.IT DOESN'T SAY IT WAS GOD THAT WAS MANIFEST IN FLESH.YOU ARE READING SOMETHING INTO IT.

1 JOHN 3:16 By this we have come to know love, because that one surrendered his soul for us; and we are under obligation to surrender [our] souls for [our] brothers.

WHAT WAS THIS SUPPOSE TO PROVE?

ACTS 7:55 But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand, 56 and he said: “Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.” 57 At this they cried out at the top of the voice and put their hands over their ears and rushed upon him with one accord. 58 And after throwing him outside the city, they began casting stones at him. And the witnesses laid down their outer garments at the feet of a young man called Saul. 59 And they went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeal and said: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

BECAUSE STEPHEN SAW JESUS AND GOD IN A VISION,AND SPOKE TO JESUS THIS PROVES HE IS GOD?IS THAT SUPPOSE TO MAKE SENCE?

COL 2: 9 because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.

THIS SCRIPTURE IS AMBIGUOUS AND COULD BE READ DIFFERENT WAYS.BUT WHAT DOES IT JUST A FEW VERSES DOWN--12 for YOU were buried with him in [his] baptism, and by relationship with him YOU were also raised up together through [YOUR] faith in the operation of God, who raised him up from the dead.
WHO RAISED WHO UP FROM THE DEAD?

MATT 1:23 “Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Im·man´u·el,” which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.”

YOU BELIEVE THIS IS SAYING JESUS IS GOD?I BELIEVE IT IS SAYING GOD IS DIRECTING HIS ATTENTION TO HIS PEOPLE THROUGH JESUS.DO OTHER BIBLE ACCOUNTS AGREE THAT JESUS IS GOD?

WHEN JESUS WAS BORN THE ANGELS SAID AT LUKE 2:14 “Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill.”

JONH 10:33 The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy, even because you, although being a man, make yourself a god.”

THE JEWS MADE THAT CLAIM.JESUS SAID-I am God’s Son. READ THE CONTEXT.

PHIL 2:5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

NONE OF THIS SAYS JESUS IS GOD.QUITE THE CONTRARY,IT SHOWS JESUS WASN'T GOD,BUT EXISTED IN GOD'S FORM AS A SPIRIT.AND IT SHOWS JESUS WASN'T EQUAL TO GOD.THE REST OF THOSE VERSES SEPERATE JESUS AND GOD CONSISTANTLY.

ACTS 20:28 Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].

WHO DO YOU BELIEVE DIED.GOD,OR THE SON OF GOD?

If some of my answers are not clear to you maybe that is because I don't understand what you believe because YOU WON'T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS.I'm not clear as to what you believe.

LET'S TRY THIS AGAIN:Are you afraid I will pick apart you answers?You would be correct.I'll use scriptures to show your beliefs are not in harmony with the Bible.Is this what you are afraid of?If you think this,it shows you understand your beliefs are founded upon sand and not rock.

Is it possibly for you to answer the following question consisely?

When Jesus was on earth,was he the Father?

Do you believe the human Jesus was both man and God?

If God is one person,how is it that you split Him up as two seperate people with different wills?

Your description is of 2 seperate people,yet you say they are the same person.

After Jesus was resurrected do you still believe God has this duel nature?

Do you believe Jesus was more than a man when he was on earth?

Again,please answer as short as possible so I can clearly understand how you believe.
_________________
Agape,
TBax

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2126

HGP,

YOURS:Jehovah's Witnesses are FALSE PROPHETS according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22. If Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus is God, then they are ALL lost and have no hope of heaven. READ JOHN 8:24!

MINE:Is your organization a "true prophet"?Tell me some of their prophisies.

YOURS: I will not listen to a FALSE organization who believes that Jesus is "a god." JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE POLYTHEISTS!

MINE:Do you believe the Bible when it says Satan is the god of this system of things?

2 Cor 4:4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Do you believe the Bible when it calls Satan the god of this system of things?
If you believe the Bible,does that make you a POLYTHEIST?
_________________
Agape,
TBax

HolyGhostPower · Big Hamster Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2126

HGP,

YOURS:Why should I answer your questions when you have not even answered ANY of the questions that this post was about from the beginning...why don't you answer them already!

MINE:I did answer some of your questions.You asked 41 questions.Reread my post following your first post.Many of you questions are addressed there.Plus I said the others require individual attention,then we addressed the topics YOU brought up.You are being evasive and untruthful.If you don't want to answer,that fine,but it speaks volumes.You have no buisness preaching your religion if you cannot answer simple questions.And you have no buisness attacking someone elses when you cannot defend your own.Ask a question,I will answer,if you prove you can answer what I've asked around 6 times.Evasiveness shows a weak position.
You cannot answer those questions because they will expose your religion as false.
_________________
Agape,
TBax

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2126

HGP,

Since you are unable to answer questions,because it will expose your religion,and you like to make baseless accusations,I find I will not be able to reason with you so I will tell you outright.Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets of God.Therefore they do not make prophesies.

Nor do they claim to be infallible,as they are humans.They have made mistakes,like the apostles and the first century Christians did.
_________________
Agape,
TBax

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

HolyGhostPower · Big Hamster Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2126

HGP,

YOURS:Jesus is the Father incarnate

MINE:So where was God when Jesus was on earth?

YOURS:There is a real distinction between God and Son - not a distinction of two divine persons, but a distinction between the eternal Spirit of God and the authentic human being in whom God was fully incarnate.

MINE:So,was Jesus talking to himself when he was praying?If Jesus were God and if Jesus were the Father,why is it that Jesus had a different "will" than the Father?Why did say to the Father "not as I will but as you will"?If Jesus were the Father than wouldn't the Father's "will" BE Jesus will?

Read MATT 26:39.Does this sound like Jesus is talking to his Father or to himself?

Read Matt 27:46.Who was Jesus calling his God?

Why is GOd and Jesus consistantly mentioned as seperate persons in the Bible?EXAMPLE:Rev 1:1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

WHO GAVE JESUS THIS REVELATION?

The Father is refered to as Jesus' God consistantly,even after Jesus was resurrected.Plus the Bible clearly shows the resurrected Jesus and his Father,who is Jesus' God,as seperate individuals.

Please Read Carefully:
1 Cor 15:24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS IS HANDING OVER THE KINGDOM TO HIMSELF?
_________________
Agape,
TBax

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2126

HGP,

YOURS:"In John 1, the Word is God's self-revelation, self-expression, or self-disclosure. Before the Incarnation, the Word was the thought, plan, reason, or mind of God. In the beginning, the Word was with God, not as a distinct Person but as God Himself

MINE:WHAT???
Is that suppose to make sence?

YOURS:The title of Son sometimes focuses solely on the humanity of Christ, as in 'the death of His Son'

MINE:Adam was refered to as the son of God.Is Adam God too?

YOURS:A corollary of the Oneness doctrine is that the name of Jesus, which means Jehovah-Saviour,

MINE:Joshuah means the same thing.Does this mean Joshuah was God too?

Can you find cut and pastes for these?
_________________
Agape,
TBax

HolyGhostPower · Big Hamster Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 96

[quote="TBax"]HGP,

YOURS:Jesus is the Father incarnate

MINE:So where was God when Jesus was on earth?

Because God is a Spirit He can be everywhere at the same time. He is the only Spirit that is truly omnipresent; for all other spirit beings such as devils, angels, and Satan himself can be confined to specific locations (Mark 5:10; Jude 6; Revelation 20:1-3).

Although God is omnipresent, we cannot equate Him with the nature, substance, or forces of the world (which would be pantheism), because He does have individuality, personality, and intelligence.

Solomon recognized God's omnipresence when he prayed at the dedication of the Temple, saying, "Behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee" (I Kings 8:27; see II Chronicles 2:6; 6:18). God declared His omnipresence by saying, "The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool" (Isaiah 66:1; see also Acts 7:49). Paul preached that the Lord is "not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17:27-28). Perhaps the most beautiful description of God's omnipresence is found in Psalm 139:7-13: "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb."

If God is omnipresent, why does the Bible describe Him as being in heaven? Here are several reasons. (1) This teaches that God is transcendent. In other words, He is beyond human understanding and He is not limited to this earth. (2) It refers to the center of God's reasoning and activity - His headquarters, so to speak. (3) It refers to God's immediate presence; that is, the fulness of God's glory and power, which no mortal man can see and live (Exodus 33:20). (4) Also, it may refer to the visible manifestation of God to the angels in heaven. It cannot mean God lacks omnipresence, is limited to one place, or is limited to a body.

Similarly, when the Bible says God came to earth or appeared to a man, it does not negate His omnipresence. It simply means the focus of His activity has shifted to earth at least as far as a certain individual or a certain situation is concerned. When God comes to earth, heaven is not empty. He is still just as much in heaven as ever. He can act simultaneously in heaven and on earth, or at several locations on earth. It is very important that we recognize the magnitude of God's omnipresence and not limit it by our human experience.

YOURS:There is a real distinction between God and Son - not a distinction of two divine persons, but a distinction between the eternal Spirit of God and the authentic human being in whom God was fully incarnate.

MINE:So,was Jesus talking to himself when he was praying?If Jesus were God and if Jesus were the Father,why is it that Jesus had a different "will" than the Father?Why did say to the Father "not as I will but as you will"?If Jesus were the Father than wouldn't the Father's "will" BE Jesus will?

JESUS prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other "persons." This one example effectively destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.

How can God pray and still be God? By definition, God in His omnipotence has no need to pray, and in His oneness has no other to whom He can pray. If the prayers of Jesus prove there are two persons in the Godhead, then one of those persons is subordinate to the other and therefore not fully or truly God.

What, then, is the explanation of the prayers of Christ? It can only be that the human nature of Jesus prayed to the eternal Spirit of God. The divine nature did not need help; only the human nature did. As Jesus said at the Garden of Gethsemane, "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matthew 26:41). Hebrews 5:7 makes it clear that Jesus needed to pray only during "the days of his flesh." During the prayer at Gethsemane, the human will submitted itself to the divine will. Through prayer His human nature learned to submit and be obedient to the Spirit of God (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:7-8). This was not a struggle between two divine wills, but a struggle between the human and divine wills in Jesus. As a man Jesus submitted Himself to and received strength from the Spirit of God.

Some may object to this explanation, contending that it means Jesus prayed to Himself. However, we must realize that, unlike any other human being, Jesus had two perfect and complete natures - humanity and divinity. What would be absurd or impossible for an ordinary man is not so strange with Jesus. We do not say Jesus prayed to Himself, for that incorrectly implies Jesus had only one nature like ordinary men. Rather, we say the human nature of Jesus prayed to the divine Spirit of Jesus that dwelt in the man.

The choice is simple. Either Jesus as God prayed to the Father or Jesus as man prayed to the Father. If the former were true, then we have a form of subordinationism or Arianism in which one person in the Godhead is inferior to, not co-equal with, another person in the Godhead. This contradicts the biblical concept of one God, the full deity of Jesus, and the omnipotence of God. If the second alternative is correct, and we believe that it is, then no distinction of persons in the Godhead exists. The only distinction is between humanity and divinity, not between God and God.

Read MATT 26:39.Does this sound like Jesus is talking to his Father or to himself?
See Answer above.

Read Matt 27:46.Who was Jesus calling his God?

See answer above.

Why is GOd and Jesus consistantly mentioned as seperate persons in the Bible?EXAMPLE:Rev 1:1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,

WHO GAVE JESUS THIS REVELATION?

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him." Here we find a distinction between the eternal Spirit of God and the man Christ. Only the Spirit could give the revelation of the events of the end times. The humanity of Christ could not know these things (Mark 13:32), so Jesus Christ knew them only through the Spirit. In addition, the deity of Christ was not a product of His humanity, but the divine human union was a product of the deity. The Book of Revelation not only reveals things to come, but it also reveals the deity of Jesus Christ, and the knowledge of both must come from the Spirit of God. We soon find that Revelation does reveal Jesus as God, for in Chapter 1 John saw a vision of Jesus in all the power and glory of God.

The Father is refered to as Jesus' God consistantly,even after Jesus was resurrected.Plus the Bible clearly shows the resurrected Jesus and his Father,who is Jesus' God,as seperate individuals.

Please Read Carefully:
1 Cor 15:24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. 26 As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. 27 For [God] “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that it is with the exception of the one who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

Not only did the Sonship have a beginning, but it will, in at least one sense, have an ending. This is evident from I Corinthians 15:23-28. In particular, verse 24 says, "Then cometh the end, when he [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father…" Verse 28 says, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." This verse of Scripture is impossible to explain if one thinks of a "God the Son" who is co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father. But it is easily explained if we realize that "Son of God" refers to a specific role that God temporarily assumed for the purpose of redemption. When the reasons for the Sonship cease to exist, God (Jesus) will cease acting in His role as Son, and the Sonship will be submerged back into the greatness of God, who will return to His original role as Father, Creator, and Ruler of all. Ephesians 5:27 describes this same scene in different terms: "That he [Christ] might present it to himself a glorious church…" Jesus will present the church to Himself! How can this be, in light of I Corinthians 15:24, which describes the Son presenting the kingdom to the Father? The answer is clear: Jesus in His role as Son, and as His final act as Son, will present the church to Himself in His role as God the Father.

We find another indication that the Sonship has an ending. In Acts 2:34-35, Peter quoted David in Psalm 110:1: "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand until I make thy foes thy footstool." We should note the word until. This passage describes the dual nature of Christ, with the Spirit of God (the LORD) speaking prophetically to the human manifestation of Christ (the Lord). The right hand of God represents God's power and authority. Making foes a footstool means utterly defeating the enemy and making an open show of their defeat. In ancient times, the victor sometimes did this literally, placing his foot on his enemies' heads or necks (Joshua 10:24). So the prophecy in Psalm 110 is this: The Spirit of God will give all power and authority to the man Christ Jesus, the Son of God, until the Son has completely vanquished the enemies of sin and the devil. The Son will have all power until He does this. What happens to the Son after this? Does this mean an eternal person of a trinity will stop sitting on the right hand of God or lose all power? No. It simply means that the role of the Son as ruler will cease. God will use His role as Son - God manifest in flesh - to conquer Satan, thereby fulfilling Genesis 3:15 in which God said the seed of the woman would bruise the head of the devil. After that, God will no longer need the human role to rule.

After Satan is cast into the lake of fire and all sin is judged at the last judgment (Revelation 20), there will be no further need for the Son to exercise the throne of power. Jesus Christ will cease acting in His Sonship role and will be God forever.

Does this mean that God will cease using the resurrected and glorified body of Christ? We believe that Jesus will continue to use His glorified body throughout eternity. This is indicated by Revelation 22:3-4, which describes a visible God even after the last judgment and after the creation of the new heaven and earth: "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads." Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:21), even though He will cease acting in His role as priest after the last judgment. The Lord's glorified human body is immortal just like ours will be (I John 3:2; I Corinthians 15:50-54). Although the glorified body of Christ will continue to exist, all the reasons for the reign of the Sonship will be gone and all the roles played by the Son will be over. Even the Son will be placed under subjection so that God may be all in all. It is in this sense that the Sonship will end.

Ryck · Lion King Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 1094

TBax · King Kong Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 2126

HGP,

MINE:So where was God when Jesus was on earth?

YOUR RESPONCE:Because God is a Spirit He can be everywhere at the same time. He is the only Spirit that is truly omnipresent; for all other spirit beings such as devils, angels, and Satan himself can be confined to specific locations

--
MINE:That is not an answer,and that makes no sence.Omnipresent?So he is everywhere all the time?God is in me so I am God?Are you God?
So when Jesus was born on earth he was everywhere all at once,as you believe he was God?

The Bible doesn't support your assertion and your misinterpretation of scripture.
HEB 9:24 For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.

JOB 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.

God has a presence,as Jesus was able to appear before it,and the angels along with Satan appeared before it in Job.

Omnipresence is not scriptural!
The Bible says ALL WISE,or ALMIGHTY but never ALL PRESENT.

YOURS:JESUS prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other "persons." This one example effectively destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.

MINE:WHAT???Again you are making a seperation into two persons,yet calling them one.
Jesus is inferior to the Father.He said so.JOHN 14:28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.

YOURS:"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him." Here we find a distinction between the eternal Spirit of God and the man Christ. Only the Spirit could give the revelation of the events of the end times. The humanity of Christ could not know these things

MINE:So there are parts of God that don't understand other parts of God.AND only the"spirit "part is actually called God.That is one confused God you worship.Your answer is bogus as Jesus was already resurrected here,and no longer a human.1 Cor 15:45 It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Do you believe Jesus was resurrected as a human,or as this scripture say a spirit?

I'm sorry,but your beliefs are extremely confusing,and make no sence whatsoever.

And I no longer anticipate straight foward answers from you,but these confusing and long cut and pastes.So I doubt you will clear anything up.
_________________
Agape,
TBax