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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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 Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: God kills babies in the Bible |
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When discussing abortion, I think it is important to keep in mind that in the Bible, God Himself kills babies.
It's pretty clearly written in Exodus. God kills all of the Egyptians' firstborns as well as those of their servants and animals.
Babies are all innocent. The babies of the servants of the Egyptians as well as the animals were ESPECIALLY innocent.
So how can pro-lifers argue that "murdering innocent babies" is somehow evil, when God Himself did the same thing?!?
Couldn't one make the argument that the abortion doctors are just being more Godly and that they are therefore righteous?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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SDMD
Show Poodle
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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And most of the loss of zygotes and embryos are an act of God anyway. Something like 65-75% of all fertilized blastocysts fail to implant and end up in the sewer
_________________
Geology: fossils of different ages
Paleontology: fossil sequence & species change over time.
Taxonomy: biological relationships
Evolution: explanation that ties it all together.
Creationism: squeezing eyes shut, wailing "DOES NOT!" |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| SDMD wrote: | | And most of the loss of zygotes and embryos are an act of God anyway. Something like 65-75% of all fertilized blastocysts fail to implant and end up in the sewer |
Interesting point. I hadn't heard that one before.
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6087
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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The number could actually be as high as 90%, actually.
It's a bit hard to tell, for obvious reasons.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Just wanted to bump this one up. I think it's an important point. How is killing innocent babies wrong if God did it? God can't sin, can He?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | God can't sin, can He? |
That's a hard one. On one hand, he isn't subject to his own laws, since he made them (see explanation of God defying the laws of physics in the miracle cases), but on the other hand, he cannot do anything against his nature as revealed in the Bible (see explanation for why God wouldn't ask us to do terrible things anymore, even just to test us).
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6087
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | On one hand, he isn't subject to his own laws, since he made them |
Usually when leaders use that mentality, they end up killed or imprisoned. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 7610
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | P1234567890 wrote: | | God can't sin, can He? |
That's a hard one. On one hand, he isn't subject to his own laws, since he made them (see explanation of God defying the laws of physics in the miracle cases), but on the other hand, he cannot do anything against his nature as revealed in the Bible (see explanation for why God wouldn't ask us to do terrible things anymore, even just to test us). |
Yeah, I'm not sure why I really asked this question. It doesn't really matter whether or not He can sin. We can easily get around that issue. Either He killed the (innocent) babies in the Bible, or He didn't.
If He did, then He's a baby-killer, and Christians can't really complain about abortion doctors, since they are basically just imitating God. Why should being God-like be bad?
On the other hand, if He didn't kill the babies, then the Bible contains a story that never happened. In other words, it contains a falsehood.
Either case is bad for Christians. (I really love these disjunction-elimination arguments!)
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: |
If He did, then He's a baby-killer, and Christians can't really complain about abortion doctors, since they are basically just imitating God. Why should being God-like be bad? |
I think there's something about a tower being destroyed because people were getting to be too close to God (in proximity, but more importantly, in ability). Check this verse out:
| Gen 11:6 wrote: | | And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. |
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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Pondering
Lion King
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1384
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6087
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Ana wrote: | | I think there's something about a tower being destroyed because people were getting to be too close to God (in proximity, but more importantly, in ability). Check this verse out: |
Funny how in the time since, we've managed to land on the moon. |
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Ana
King of the Jungle
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1553
Location: BC
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Ana wrote: | | I think there's something about a tower being destroyed because people were getting to be too close to God (in proximity, but more importantly, in ability). Check this verse out: |
Funny how in the time since, we've managed to land on the moon. |
And look at us now! More languages! Same crime, same punishment! Textmessagese, IMish, C++  Now that's punishment!
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Truth doesn't care about theology, and theology doesn't care about truth. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6087
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| You may have a point, there. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Just wanted to bump this one up. I think it's an important point. How is killing innocent babies wrong if God did it? God can't sin, can He? |
Because God did it. Killing innocent babies by man is wrong. Not so much that they are innocent, but that they are God's to do with as He chooses.
God created us so He can do with us as He sees fit. You go create something and see if you like it when someone else destroys it.
Flashman
_________________
You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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Flashman
Pit Bull
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 371
Location: MO
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Ana wrote: | | I think there's something about a tower being destroyed because people were getting to be too close to God (in proximity, but more importantly, in ability). Check this verse out: |
Funny how in the time since, we've managed to land on the moon. |
FFT, do you think that the reason our spacemen blasted off was to get closer to God? Was that just sarcastic? Hard to tell.
Flashman
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You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. |
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