Predestination Yes? - or - No ?

Nobby · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: Predestination Yes? - or - No ?

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yme & theseldomscene, have agreed to a "One on One" Debate!!

TOPIC: Predestination yes or no ?
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theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

yme my good fellow...you may have the opening statement and the closing statement...

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

OK are you there?
I finally found this. Lets start with Satan Adam and Eve, I do not think they were predestined to fail.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

well, my good friend...please explain why..p.s. it is getting late here on the east coast...but this can go on for days and days so if i fall asleep tonight i'll be back tomorrow, LORD willing. please now, continue.

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

OK, Iam on the west coast, so when ever you want you hit the sack, I will be here tommorrow also!!
what did you mean p.s. ??
I don't think this will take that long Very Happy

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

I don't expect to convert you, maby just give you something to think about!! Cool

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

Lets start with Satan, Adam and Eve, I do not think they were predestined to fail.

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

Hi theseldomscene
actually I started it, it really is your turn to tell me why you think they were predestined to fail. In other words, they had no choice!

theseldomscene · Banned Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 7817

what? horsehockey...you say they weren't supposed to i say "why?" you tell me...then i make my stand and we'll start talking...you have not said anything...i have ask you twice....don't be afraid...fear is of the devil...i can do what you did..all things were predestined!!! there, we're even..

now, one more time...why did you say adam and eve weren't suppose to fall or the devil for that matter?.. let me ask you this...are you saying GOD made a mistake and is not infallible?

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

good morning theseldomscene

Ecclesiastes 9:11

11 I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all. 12 For man also does not know his time. Just like fishes that are being taken in an evil net, and like birds that are being taken in a trap, so the sons of men themselves are being ensnared at a calamitous time, when it falls upon them suddenly.

Do you believe that animals and fish are predestined also??

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

“God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him.”—Acts 10:34, 35
What if you are born into a Muslem family, does that mean you are predestined to become a Muslem. If that is the case this scripture is meaningless.
I'm assuming for you ( I don't like to do that, so set me straight if you want to) that God is the one that is perdestining people! So why would he need this scripture in the bible, if a man's life is already predestined?
To believe in predestination you would have to say that God is partial, because he would have to predestine some to follow him and others not to. and why would God predestine people to be in other religions? This just does not make any sense.
Because God says that few will be finding the narrow road to life many will go on the broad road to destruction.
God would have to predestine many more for destruction than the ones he predestined to life.
Does that make any kind of sense at all. Ofcourse not.
And why would they have to find anything, they would have been predestined!
Just does not make sense!!

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

Did you know :

M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia, Volume I, page 499, links predestination and astrology and shows Mohammedanism’s interest in both, saying: “By the latter [judicial astrology], it was pretended, could be predicted events which were dependent upon the human will, as particular actions, peace, war, etc. Astrology accords well with the predestinarian doctrines of Mohammedanism, and was accordingly cultivated with great ardor by the Arabs from the seventh to the thirteenth century. Some of the early Christian fathers argued against the doctrines of astrology; others received them in a modified form. In its public capacity the Roman Church several times condemned the system, but many zealous churchmen cultivated it. Cardinal D’Ailly, ‘the eagle of the doctors of France’ (died 1420), is said to have calculated the horoscope of Jesus Christ, and maintained that the Deluge might have been predicted by astrology.”

yme · Big Goldfish Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 68

Before their captivity in Babylon, the Jews frequently fell victims to idolatries. After their return to Jerusalem they avoided the more obvious idolatries, falling instead into more subtle snares.
They began to build up a great mass of tradition, and religious sects arose among them. One of these was the Pharisees. They did not believe in predestination by the star gods of the heathen, but they did believe God so determined human lives.
By their tradition they transferred a pagan doctrine to God and voided his word that time and chance happen to all of them, rather than events being predestinated.