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Bible-Discussion.com Forum Index -> Creation vs. Evolution Debate

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Carico
Little Guppy

Joined: 13 Sep 2005

Posts: 30

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:33 am Post subject:

admin wrote:

http://www.talkorigins.org has a pretty hefty Q&A section of common creationist misnomers and scientific responses.

Honestly, the only way I can fathom someone to look at all the evidence and still maintain that evolution is "fraud", is if their real aim is to stay on the side of scripture/fundmentalist church doctrine at any cost.

Running so many forums has given me a wealth of information these past years, and my opinions on things have changed drastically given all the new information I have learned.

As stated before, I am attending lectures at Cal Tech and getting much of my info directly from the source. At one point in my life I turned to scripture for answers on all things, at another point I turned to metaphysics, meditation and personal enlightenment. It is growing knowledge that has changed my opinion of those approaches as truly flawed when trying to reason with truths of the world around us.

The facts led me to where I am today, not ignorance.

What evidence? Shocked

Where has anyone ever witnessed an animal turning into a human being? Shocked

This is all conjecture from the imagination and impossible as well. The only way one species can turn into another species is if they are able to breed with each other and that is a fact.

I just debated an evolutionist on the EVC forum who said that apes and humans can interbreed which is a blatant falsehood. He finally admitted it was a falsehood. But this is what happens when people try to call humans apes. This occurred because scientists who claim omniscience about how humans were created when they weren't even around to know this, simply decided to call a human an ape. But this is also what happens when people worship other fallible human beings. So most people simply accept that because someone has a Ph.d., then he must be right. Well sorry, but all these people with Ph.d's disagree with each other and eventually change their theories and replace them with new ones every century. I just read an article by an evolutionist who said that we huamns aren't as old as we once thought. So which science do you believe? Today's science or tomorrow's science that corrects today's science? Shocked

golfjack
Lion King

Joined: 24 Aug 2005

Posts: 1123

Location: arizona

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:36 am Post subject: reply

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Carico. May God bless, golfjack

Carico
Little Guppy

Joined: 13 Sep 2005

Posts: 30

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:30 am Post subject: Re: reply

golfjack wrote:

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Carico.

May God bless, golfjack

Thanks, for the support, Golfjack. In this day and age, it is needed more and more as men conjure up all sorts of explanations for our creation which has shown itself to be nothing short of miraculous. But this verifies Romans 1:18-20 which states that God has made his existence plain to men by His creation even though men will reject God and make up all sorts of other explanations, so that man is without excuse. Wink

SDMD
Show Poodle

Joined: 12 Oct 2005

Posts: 253

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:51 am Post subject:

Carico wrote:

What evidence? Shocked

Where has anyone ever witnessed an animal turning into a human being?

Evolution doesn't necessitate this, so your argument for evidence doesn't match your false claim against Evolution.

Quote:

This is all conjecture from the imagination and impossible as well. The only way one species can turn into another species is if they are able to breed with each other and that is a fact.

Instead of attacking what you have demonstrated to have no knowledge about, you should investigate something like ring-species.

Coming here and making absolutist claims that are false doesn't help your credibility.

Quote:

I just debated an evolutionist on the EVC forum who said that apes and humans can interbreed which is a blatant falsehood. He finally admitted it was a falsehood. But this is what happens when people try to call humans apes.

Huh? Humans ARE apes. That doesn't mean that the individual species can interbreed.

Quote:

This occurred because scientists who claim omniscience about how humans were created

Hmm, what scientists are they? Could you mention some names and some references to these claims you are saying exists? Or are you just making this up?

Quote:

when they weren't even around to know this,[/ quote]Did Abraham Lincoln exist? You weren't around to meet him, so how can you be sure?

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simply decided to call a human an ape.

Nope, your claim is false.
[quote[] But this is also what happens when people worship other fallible human beings.

But not what happened in science, despite your false claims.

Now, one thing is if you want to honestly have a debate on this. But to outright spew false claim after false claim is highly disrespectful and shows you to be nothing but a troll.

Quote:

So most people simply accept that because someone has a Ph.d., then he must be right.

Do they? Well, scientists certainly don't, as in science it is the data and not the person that matters. So your remark seems utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand. Why are you talking about this?

Quote:

Well sorry, but all these people with Ph.d's disagree with each other and eventually change their theories and replace them with new ones every century.

If you are claiming to be talking about Scientific Theories, then your claim is flat-out false.

Quote:

I just read an article by an evolutionist who said that we huamns aren't as old as we once thought.

Really? Who? And where? Was it a scientific source? Was it an "evolutionist"?

Quote:

So which science do you believe? Today's science or tomorrow's science that corrects today's science?

Hmm, it seems to me like you are trying to say that the Scientific Method, the process by which we discover and evaluate scientific information, that this process is faulty. Is that a correct impression, that you are condemning all science as faulty (other than just per the numerous false claims you made about science)?

FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy

Joined: 26 Mar 2005

Posts: 5901

Location: Memphis

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:01 pm Post subject:

Carico wrote:

I just debated an evolutionist on the EVC forum who said that apes and humans can interbreed which is a blatant falsehood. He finally admitted it was a falsehood.

Could you pose a link to this, please?

Carico
Little Guppy

Joined: 13 Sep 2005

Posts: 30

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:

SDMD wrote:

Carico wrote:

What evidence? Shocked

Where has anyone ever witnessed an animal turning into a human being?

Evolution doesn't necessitate this, so your argument for evidence doesn't match your false claim against Evolution.

Quote:

This is all conjecture from the imagination and impossible as well. The only way one species can turn into another species is if they are able to breed with each other and that is a fact.

Quote:

Huh? Humans ARE apes. That doesn't mean that the individual species can interbreed.

Quote:

This occurred because scientists who claim omniscience about how humans were created

Hmm, what scientists are they? Could you mention some names and some references to these claims you are saying exists? Or are you just making this up?

Quote:

when they weren't even around to know this,[/ quote]Did Abraham Lincoln exist? You weren't around to meet him, so how can you be sure?

Quote:

simply decided to call a human an ape.

Nope, your claim is false.
[quote[] But this is also what happens when people worship other fallible human beings.

Quote:

So most people simply accept that because someone has a Ph.d., then he must be right.

Do they? Well, scientists certainly don't, as in science it is the data and not the person that matters. So your remark seems utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand. Why are you talking about this?

Quote:

Well sorry, but all these people with Ph.d's disagree with each other and eventually change their theories and replace them with new ones every century.

If you are claiming to be talking about Scientific Theories, then your claim is flat-out false.

Quote:

I just read an article by an evolutionist who said that we huamns aren't as old as we once thought.

Really? Who? And where? Was it a scientific source? Was it an "evolutionist"?

Quote:

So which science do you believe? Today's science or tomorrow's science that corrects today's science?

Hello? So how do evolutionists claim that an ape turned into a human being? Shocked

Again, there are only 2 explanations: 1) either apes turned into humans on their own or 2) They bred with humans. So if evolutionists don't espouse either one, then how can they claim that apes turned into humans? Shocked

I would agree with them if they claimed that apes didn't turn into humans because neither of the above explanations is possible. Sorry. Crying or Very sad

And nothing you've said in any of your other comments proves that apes can turn into human beings. They are simply attacks without explanations of why you believe my comments are wrong.

Yes. Scientists themselves have proven their theories are faulty every time they correct their previous theories. A favorite phrase of scientists is "we now know that what we previously thought was true is not true." They now say that there was no "Big Bang" but instead, a magnetic attraction between molecules, atoms, protons, and electrons that formed the earth. So they are now saying their previous theory about the Big Bang was wrong. So they have demonstrated that they don't have a good enough track record to be believable about anything. Sorry. Crying or Very sad

SDMD
Show Poodle

Joined: 12 Oct 2005

Posts: 253

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject:

Carico wrote:

Hello? So how do evolutionists claim that an ape turned into a human being?

Well, that generally is not the claim by anybody other than creationists.

I don’t know that you want to claim Proconsul to be an “ape.” Certainly not as we see apes today.

Quote:

Again, there are only 2 explanations: 1) either apes turned into humans on their own or 2) They bred with humans.

Neither are correct. Apes, like humans, have evolved over time from an original ancestor.

Quote:

So if evolutionists don't espouse either one, then how can they claim that apes turned into humans?

Again, that is generally a creationist claim or misinterpretation.

Quote:

I would agree with them if they claimed that apes didn't turn into humans because neither of the above explanations is possible. Sorry.

Perhaps if you didn’t argue against a strawman, it would all make mores sense to you?

Quote:

And nothing you've said in any of your other comments proves that apes can turn into human beings.

neither was it meant to, as that is not a claim I have pushed. That you decided to ignore everything else is not my fault.

Quote:

They are simply attacks without explanations of why you believe my comments are wrong.

Hmm, did you actually read my posts? Your claim indicates that you didn’t.

Quote:

Yes. Scientists themselves have proven their theories are faulty every time they correct their previous theories.

Perhaps you don’t really know what a Scientific Theory is? You seem to try to imply here that Scientific Hypotheses or Scientific Models somehow are Scientific Theories? That would be a serious misrepresentation of Science if that is what you are saying, so could you please clarify your claim and perhaps provide some examples so we know what you are talking about?

Because surely you wouldn’t make claims without being able to back them up, right?

Quote:

A favorite phrase of scientists is "we now know that what we previously thought was true is not true."

Is it? Is that really a favorite phrase of Scientists? Could you please document this to be true or stop bearing False Witness about Scientists, please?

Quote:

They now say that there was no "Big Bang" but instead, a magnetic attraction between molecules, atoms, protons, and electrons that formed the earth.

What ARE you talking about? Nobody ever said that the Big bang formed the Earth. What we characterize as the Big Bang happened about 11 billion years before the Earth was showing any kind of solid land structures. Your argument simply does not make sense at all. It has nothing to do with science or scientific data at all, so I am puzzled why you are making these claims. It almost seems like you are again Bearing False Witness, so could you instead provide a reference to the scientific findings hat made you claim the above?

Quote:

So they are now saying their previous theory about the Big Bang was wrong.

Who, “they”?

Quote:

So they have demonstrated that they don't have a good enough track record to be believable about anything. Sorry.

Well, so far I only have your unsubstantiated and weird claim for this. So please reference the science behind this, please.

Now, are you actually going to deal with the points I raised in the previous post, or are you also going to ignore that?

FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy

Joined: 26 Mar 2005

Posts: 5901

Location: Memphis

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject:

Carico wrote:

I just debated an evolutionist on the EVC forum who said that apes and humans can interbreed which is a blatant falsehood. He finally admitted it was a falsehood.

Could you pose a link to this, please?

Repeated for emphasis.

Carico
Little Guppy

Joined: 13 Sep 2005

Posts: 30

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:48 am Post subject:

SDMD wrote:

Carico wrote:

Hello? So how do evolutionists claim that an ape turned into a human being?

Well, that generally is not the claim by anybody other than creationists.

I don’t know that you want to claim Proconsul to be an “ape.” Certainly not as we see apes today.

Quote:

Again, there are only 2 explanations: 1) either apes turned into humans on their own or 2) They bred with humans.

Neither are correct. Apes, like humans, have evolved over time from an original ancestor.

Quote:

So if evolutionists don't espouse either one, then how can they claim that apes turned into humans?

Again, that is generally a creationist claim or misinterpretation.

Quote:

I would agree with them if they claimed that apes didn't turn into humans because neither of the above explanations is possible. Sorry.

Perhaps if you didn’t argue against a strawman, it would all make mores sense to you?

Quote:

And nothing you've said in any of your other comments proves that apes can turn into human beings.

neither was it meant to, as that is not a claim I have pushed. That you decided to ignore everything else is not my fault.

Quote:

They are simply attacks without explanations of why you believe my comments are wrong.

Hmm, did you actually read my posts? Your claim indicates that you didn’t.

Quote:

Yes. Scientists themselves have proven their theories are faulty every time they correct their previous theories.

Quote:

A favorite phrase of scientists is "we now know that what we previously thought was true is not true."

Is it? Is that really a favorite phrase of Scientists? Could you please document this to be true or stop bearing False Witness about Scientists, please?

Quote:

They now say that there was no "Big Bang" but instead, a magnetic attraction between molecules, atoms, protons, and electrons that formed the earth.

Quote:

So they are now saying their previous theory about the Big Bang was wrong.

Who, “they”?

Quote:

So they have demonstrated that they don't have a good enough track record to be believable about anything. Sorry.

Sorry, but "evolving over time" means the same thing as turning into humans on their own. So you have made false statements to me when you said that evolutionists don't espouse apes turning into humans on their own. So instead of spending time attacking me, you need to address your own contradictions. Wink

And until you do, your attacks on me have zero substance.

I thought you considered yourself well-versed in science. Shocked

Again, scientists are now replacing the "Big Bang" theory with the notion that the earth was formed by the magnetic attraction of hot particles which cooled to form a solid mass called the earth. Again, you need to be more informed before you make antiquated declarations. Wink

And you still have not explained how an animal can turn into a human without being able to breed with humans. So your comments are again, completely meaningless, my friend.

SDMD
Show Poodle

Joined: 12 Oct 2005

Posts: 253

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:

Carico wrote:

Nope. Apes did NOT turn into humans. Something else turned into apes, incl. humans. Try to get it right, would you?

And Evolution over time merely means that populations change over time, nothing else. Please don't try to misrepresent the actual science here.

Quote:

So instead of spending time attacking me, you need to address your own contradictions

There are no contradictions. There are errors in your claim.

Quote:

And until you do, your attacks on me have zero substance.

Please cease that stupid nonsense. I am not attacking you; I am attacking your false claims.

Quote:

Again, scientists are now replacing the "Big Bang" theory with the notion that the earth was formed by the magnetic attraction of hot particles which cooled to form a solid mass called the earth.

Nope. Again, these evens are more than 10 bill. Years separated. I noticed that you “forgot” to actually document that wild and silly claim of yours. Hmm.. So just another wild and crazy claim of “just because I say so.”

Quote:

Again, you need to be more informed before you make antiquated declarations.

Again, you need to be more informed before you spew your lies.

Quote:

And you still have not explained how an animal can turn into a human without being able to breed with humans.

I provided examples. Why are you lying about this?

Quote:

So your comments are again, completely meaningless, my friend.

Rather, your strawman argument is just ANOTHER example of how creationists can’t argue without outright bearing false witness A LOT!

Once again, I ask you, are you actually going to deal with the points I raised in the previous post, or are you also going to ignore that?

FFT
Emperor of the Galaxy

Joined: 26 Mar 2005

Posts: 5901

Location: Memphis

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:26 am Post subject:

FFT wrote:

Carico wrote:

I just debated an evolutionist on the EVC forum who said that apes and humans can interbreed which is a blatant falsehood. He finally admitted it was a falsehood.

Could you pose a link to this, please?

Repeated for emphasis.

At this point, I'm going to have to assume that you were simply making this up.

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