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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 909
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 Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: |
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If you joined the "church" then you don't belong to the Church. Think about that for a moment. If you walked in and started fellowshipping with others and now consider yourself in the Church - then you are deceived. God's Church is not what you "join". God's Church is what are put into. Only those that have the Holy Spirit are in God's Church - there are no other members of His Church that don't have the Holy Spirit. If your heart has changed such that you recognize that Jesus is the Christ and you mortify the deeds of the flesh and DO God's commandments to love your God with all your heart and soul and love your neighbor as yourself then your in God's Church. It's not about aligning with men that claim they are "Christians" that have a unique set of doctrines to teach. So you see God's Church is about a condition of the heart of men that adheres to the instruction of God - they hear His voice.
Paul |
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dpainter
Little Guppy
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Paul
I tend to agree with what you have to say. I use to be with the catholic church but left it a while back ( I think in there book I am still catholic, but I don't want to go through the trouble of withdrawing my memebership, they would more and likely charge me an arm and a leg if I wanted to do that.  ) We now attend a couple of baptist church because we like to fellowship, but I refuse to become a member because I believe I'm already a member of the CHURCH of CHRIST.
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John 5:39You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 909
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| dpainter wrote: | Paul
I tend to agree with what you have to say. I use to be with the catholic church but left it a while back ( I think in there book I am still catholic, but I don't want to go through the trouble of withdrawing my memebership, they would more and likely charge me an arm and a leg if I wanted to do that. ) We now attend a couple of baptist church because we like to fellowship, but I refuse to become a member because I believe I'm already a member of the CHURCH of CHRIST. |
Christians are given specific instruction as thus:
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
That is a powerful verse that needs some clarification of what is meant there. Does this mean that a Christian is to avoid anyone that is contrary to their view? - No, as it means we are to avoid those that "cause" divisions. These are people that are in "opposition". Satan is one that is in opposition so these are people that are in opposition to the Truth that is in the Christ. So people such as the unbelievers and other sinners are not to be avoided until such time they confess after they have heard the Truth to instead part from it and oppose it. So if for example, you fellowship with Baptist then you fellowship with offenses. For they do have doctrines that are contrary to that which is contained in the Christ. Thereby we are instructed:
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Notice the verse above in Romans 16:17 said to avoid "them" referring to the people whereas the "them" in Eph 5:11 is referring to the works. So we are to mark them and avoid them that are contrary but their works we are to reprove.
So what this comes down to is that anyone who is not perpetrating to be contrary is not an opponent of the Lord. It is those that are perpetrating to be contrary to the Lord that are. And when I say contrary to the Lord, I mean contrary to the Truth. So for example, if one never heard of God and does practice sin - they are not contrary for they don't necessarily know the Truth to be contrary to.
I actually practice this and you will see it in these forums as time goes on that I will ignore to comment to someone that I find has decided to arrogantly put aside the Truth and push a doctrine of men. I would rather confess openly and praise someone for showing my error than to be arrogant and prideful to condemnation giving power to the one that hold the Truth over me therefore, I take the rebuke to conform that I might stand worthy to obtain the promises.
So dpainter - don't feel that you need "men" to be with in order to be in fellowship. As long as you seek the Holy Spirit you will be in fellowship:
1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Consider that verse - a Christian even now should realize they even have fellowship with the Apostles even though they may not be here. For fellowship is in the Spirit and by possessing the same Spirit one shares in the same blessing.
However, even in this forum we can have fellowship for God desires it to be the case that those called should gather together for the edification of the members.
Paul |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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One of the reasons for the 'protest' was because the catholic church went its own way, veered from scripture and created its own faith. Sadly we see this in many of the Protestant religions today as well, following the teachings of their 'founders' in spite of the conflicts with scripture.
My stance has always been that religion is of man, man is imperfect, therefore religion is imperfect. The best we can do is recognize the conflicts and reject the false doctrines as we find them.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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dpainter
Little Guppy
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| trettep wrote: |
So if for example, you fellowship with Baptist then you fellowship with offenses. |
If this is true, does that mean, by me reaplying to you, I fellowship with offenses? I guess it all depends on witch side of the fence you are viewing this.
| trettep wrote: | they do have doctrines that are contrary to that which is contained in the Christ.
Paul |
Yes, this is why I refuse to become a member, but the fellowship is still nice, for they promote love and not hate, they promote unity and not division. They promote the Love for God and the Love for one another, is this not what Christ commanded.
I left the catholic church because they claimed to be basically equal to God, not recognizing there own faults. The church I attend now admit they are not perfect and know they need much improving and are at list open to the truth, unlike the catholic church who refuse to see the truth.
| trettep wrote: | So dpainter - don't feel that you need "men" to be with in order to be in fellowship. As long as you seek the Holy Spirit you will be in fellowship:
1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. |
Needing men? NO. Fellowship with other christians? YES. You know, I am not perfect and the nice thing about talking with fellow christians is that they know they are not perfect either. With the catholic church you were to be seen and not heard, and trying to understand the Word of God on your own was almost a sin  .
P.S. I do not seek the Holy Spirit, I recieved the Holy Spirit when I accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour.
_________________
John 5:39You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 909
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| dpainter wrote: | | trettep wrote: |
So if for example, you fellowship with Baptist then you fellowship with offenses. |
If this is true, does that mean, by me reaplying to you, I fellowship with offenses? I guess it all depends on witch side of the fence you are viewing this.
| trettep wrote: | they do have doctrines that are contrary to that which is contained in the Christ.
Paul |
Yes, this is why I refuse to become a member, but the fellowship is still nice, for they promote love and not hate, they promote unity and not division. They promote the Love for God and the Love for one another, is this not what Christ commanded.
I left the catholic church because they claimed to be basically equal to God, not recognizing there own faults. The church I attend now admit they are not perfect and know they need much improving and are at list open to the truth, unlike the catholic church who refuse to see the truth.
| trettep wrote: | So dpainter - don't feel that you need "men" to be with in order to be in fellowship. As long as you seek the Holy Spirit you will be in fellowship:
1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. |
Needing men? NO. Fellowship with other christians? YES. You know, I am not perfect and the nice thing about talking with fellow christians is that they know they are not perfect either. With the catholic church you were to be seen and not heard, and trying to understand the Word of God on your own was almost a sin .
P.S. I do not seek the Holy Spirit, I recieved the Holy Spirit when I accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour. |
Yes dpainter - if you believe that I speak something that is contrary to the Faith then yes - you should apply the same instruction to me as well.
Regarding love - the real test of love is to love your enemies and those that oppose you. It's not great task to love those that love us. So use that in your discernment.
Regarding the Holy Spirit - I have heard people say that received the Holy Spirit before so please don't be offended but I want to ask more specific questions about that. For example, how did you receive the Holy Spirit? What form did it come upon you and at what moment did you notice it? How do you know that you have still have it?
Now the reason I ask those questions dpainter is not to belittle your experience at all but that those are questions you should be able to answer according to scripture. I myself know those answers relating to myself but I tell you this about myself. I find it difficult to maintain the Spirit. But I know when I don't have it and when I do. So for me the Spirit is like an umbrella. So long as I'm under it - I'm "saved" but when I'm not - I'm doomed. In fact, I'm even instructed to abide in the Christ and His Spirit:
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
The simple fact that we are instructed to "abide" is very significant along these lines.
I have a work to do dpainter and its not to oppose so please don't take offense to what I say as I know it may be contrary to some of the things you stated. In the work that I try to do - I try to be compassionate and even when knowing the things I do know its hard for me as I must constantly contend with my flesh and the arrogance thereof.
Let me know your thoughts - because I do care what you think.
Paul |
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shepreach
Cobra
Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 493
Location: ga
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| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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i can agree with most of what has been said here, but want to throw in a few things for consideration.
considering fellowship with other christians:
Heb 10:19-25 NASB | Quote: | | ¶ Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since {we have} a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled {clean} from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging {one another;} and all the more as you see the day drawing near. |
concerning the Holy Spirit:
i don't think you can lose the Spirit--in the sense of losing a coin, etc. i do think you can shut him down when you don,t want to listen to him. since he is the Spirit of God he can come and go as he pleases--not as we please. he is a gift like faith is.
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a servant in Christ
I'm wounded sore but not yet slain, I'll lie and bleed awhile then rise to fight again.
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Steffuller
Tadpole
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 25
Location: MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:40 am Post subject: |
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dpainter wrote:
| Quote: | | I left the catholic church because they claimed to be basically equal to God, not recognizing there own faults. The church I attend now admit they are not perfect and know they need much improving and are at list open to the truth, unlike the catholic church who refuse to see the truth. |
Just want to point out that it all depends on which Parish of the Catholic Church you attend and who the Pastor is. The one I attend is a very down to earth loving church and none of the Priests think they are perfect or the church. Now 10 years ago this same church was not like this but it had a different Pastor. So my point not all Catholic churches are the same or should be lumped as the same.
We have a Priests that had been married and was a school teacher with children of his own. He became a Priests after the death of his wife and daughter. Now he is the most understand Priests I have ever known.
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dpainter
Little Guppy
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| trettep wrote: |
Yes dpainter - if you believe that I speak something that is contrary to the Faith then yes - you should apply the same instruction to me as well. |
I do not know you yet to be able to do this.
| trettep wrote: |
Regarding the Holy Spirit - I have heard people say that received the Holy Spirit before so please don't be offended but I want to ask more specific questions about that. For example, how did you receive the Holy Spirit? What form did it come upon you and at what moment did you notice it? How do you know that you have still have it? |
Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Now if you want to judge me because I can't be specific that is your choice, but I believe in Christ as my Lord and Saviour and the fire does burn in me for HIS sake.
| trettep wrote: | Now the reason I ask those questions dpainter is not to belittle your experience at all but that those are questions you should be able to answer according to scripture. I myself know those answers relating to myself but I tell you this about myself. I find it difficult to maintain the Spirit. But I know when I don't have it and when I do. So for me the Spirit is like an umbrella. So long as I'm under it - I'm "saved" but when I'm not - I'm doomed. In fact, I'm even instructed to abide in the Christ and His Spirit:
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
The simple fact that we are instructed to "abide" is very significant along these lines. |
If you say the Spirit is an umbrella for you then that tells me you did not accept Him in you, the only way to be saved is to let him in your life and have him abide in you as stated in John 15:4. If you view the Spirit as an umbrella then yes it will be a struglle to abide in Him. When I hold an umbrella for a long period of time I have to switch it from one hand to the other and even then it becomes a real struggle, this seems like a lot of work to me. You must open your heart and let Him also abide in you .
| trettep wrote: | I have a work to do dpainter and its not to oppose so please don't take offense to what I say as I know it may be contrary to some of the things you stated. In the work that I try to do - I try to be compassionate and even when knowing the things I do know its hard for me as I must constantly contend with my flesh and the arrogance thereof.
Let me know your thoughts - because I do care what you think.
Paul |
Please Paul, if your work is not to oppose what is it? Hopefully we can help. My first post to you seem to be in agreement with you not in opposition, but yet you took that and turned it into this discussion we are having now. Why?
_________________
John 5:39You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 909
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| dpainter wrote: | | trettep wrote: |
Yes dpainter - if you believe that I speak something that is contrary to the Faith then yes - you should apply the same instruction to me as well. |
I do not know you yet to be able to do this.
| trettep wrote: |
Regarding the Holy Spirit - I have heard people say that received the Holy Spirit before so please don't be offended but I want to ask more specific questions about that. For example, how did you receive the Holy Spirit? What form did it come upon you and at what moment did you notice it? How do you know that you have still have it? |
Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Now if you want to judge me because I can't be specific that is your choice, but I believe in Christ as my Lord and Saviour and the fire does burn in me for HIS sake.
| trettep wrote: | Now the reason I ask those questions dpainter is not to belittle your experience at all but that those are questions you should be able to answer according to scripture. I myself know those answers relating to myself but I tell you this about myself. I find it difficult to maintain the Spirit. But I know when I don't have it and when I do. So for me the Spirit is like an umbrella. So long as I'm under it - I'm "saved" but when I'm not - I'm doomed. In fact, I'm even instructed to abide in the Christ and His Spirit:
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
The simple fact that we are instructed to "abide" is very significant along these lines. |
If you say the Spirit is an umbrella for you then that tells me you did not accept Him in you, the only way to be saved is to let him in your life and have him abide in you as stated in John 15:4. If you view the Spirit as an umbrella then yes it will be a struglle to abide in Him. When I hold an umbrella for a long period of time I have to switch it from one hand to the other and even then it becomes a real struggle, this seems like a lot of work to me. You must open your heart and let Him also abide in you .
| trettep wrote: | I have a work to do dpainter and its not to oppose so please don't take offense to what I say as I know it may be contrary to some of the things you stated. In the work that I try to do - I try to be compassionate and even when knowing the things I do know its hard for me as I must constantly contend with my flesh and the arrogance thereof.
Let me know your thoughts - because I do care what you think.
Paul |
Please Paul, if your work is not to oppose what is it? Hopefully we can help. My first post to you seem to be in agreement with you not in opposition, but yet you took that and turned it into this discussion we are having now. Why? |
First off dpainter - I'm not in opposition to you because I'm trying to work toward your good. Your first post was in agreement with me, but I wasn't looking for those to agree but to act. You had said something that I wanted you to ponder further. Fellowship with others that are in opposition to the Truth will not strengthen one's Spirit no matter how compassionaite they appear. Remember, even Satan can appear as an angel of light. I'm not asking you to forsake the assembling with others but to be careful in doing so. In fact the Lord as others have pointed out encourages that assembly but for the purposes of the edification of His Children. What hardens one's heart is when they feel that someone is opposing them. So to me it is very important that you don't get that feeling and to realize that I'm trying to help you. As for my umbrella analogy - I picture Jesus holding it and not myself but I'm the one that must remain under it much like abiding in the vine.
Regarding the Holy Spirit dpainter. I believe the Holy Spirit is one of the most misunderstood things in the Bible. The reason it is becomes very clear to me because the Holy Spirit is what Satan has a direct assault on. The Holy Spirit is the actual (Personality/Character/Nature) of the Father in Heaven. It isn't a separate person but is the Person of the Father. Again, I say can you answer those questions about the Holy Spirit that I asked before? - (I'm compassionate dpainter - I don't really want you to answer it to me but in your own mind - no need to post your answers). But my awareness of the Holy Spirit is such that I know the "mechanics" or the "operation" of the Spirit if you will. I know HOW it is delivered and HOW we can know we have it. I work against an opposition that wants to come upon you and prevent you from hearing that.
Paul |
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dpainter
Little Guppy
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| trettep wrote: | | First off dpainter - I'm not in opposition to you because I'm trying to work toward your good. Your first post was in agreement with me, but I wasn't looking for those to agree but to act. |
Well I will have to do much pundering and thinking and going back and forth to scripture before I act on what you say. | trettep wrote: | | You had said something that I wanted you to ponder further. Fellowship with others that are in opposition to the Truth will not strengthen one's Spirit no matter how compassionaite they appear. |
Paul when was the last time you'ver been to the specific church that I attend? Before you judge them maybe you should get to know them. Christ has many churches.(Romans 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you. ) So you can't judge all churches just because of a bad experience. Don't you worry about me, I am a big boy, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit I will remain on the right path.
| trettep wrote: | | Remember, even Satan can appear as an angel of light. I'm not asking you to forsake the assembling with others but to be careful in doing so. |
Trust me I am very careful, I have a wife and three boys to consider. | trettep wrote: | | In fact the Lord as others have pointed out encourages that assembly but for the purposes of the edification of His Children. What hardens one's heart is when they feel that someone is opposing them. |
Now the problem here is it my heart that is being harden or yours. I think we both need to pray on this. | trettep wrote: | | So to me it is very important that you don't get that feeling and to realize that I'm trying to help you. |
I do admit that I am not perfect and will never claim to be or I would never be here in the first place. If anything you say does help me then I will thank God for that. I hope your heart and mind is open enough to relies this for yourself also. | trettep wrote: | | As for my umbrella analogy - I picture Jesus holding it and not myself but I'm the one that must remain under it much like abiding in the vine. |
I do like this picture.
| trettep wrote: | | Regarding the Holy Spirit dpainter. I believe the Holy Spirit is one of the most misunderstood things in the Bible. The reason it is becomes very clear to me because the Holy Spirit is what Satan has a direct assault on. The Holy Spirit is the actual (Personality/Character/Nature) of the Father in Heaven. |
Would you agree this (Personality/Character/Nature) would have to apply to Christ also? Personaly I view them as three seperate persons in one GOD.
(Matthew 28:19
" Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him(Christ) in bodily form like a dove, and a voice(the Father's) came out of heaven, " You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.") | trettep wrote: | | It isn't a separate person but is the Person of the Father. Again, I say can you answer those questions about the Holy Spirit that I asked before? - (I'm compassionate dpainter - I don't really want you to answer it to me but in your own mind - no need to post your answers). |
| dpainter wrote: | Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Now if you want to judge me because I can't be specific that is your choice, but I believe in Christ as my Lord and Saviour and the fire does burn in me for HIS sake. |
I was raised in the Church since I was an infant, so to give you a specific time or place that I received the Holy Spirit, I can't say. I know it was at a young age, when I was in grade 5 or 6. It was at around this time that faith truly started to take over my life. That is when I really started to have that urge to want to know more about God, who he was and what he wanted, all this besause I wanted to serve Him better. Even though I might have strayed away in my teens, that inner feeling never went away, I could not shake it loose no matter how much I tried. There was a time where I doubted my own faith when I would here people talk about that sudden moment of conversion and people like you would try to convince me that if I can't remeber then I must not have the Spirit and could not be saved. But God was, is and always will be true to me and carried me along these hard times. The fact remains that by the grace of God I have Faith and I will not invent a story just to appease people like you. PS: I heard many testaments of conversion and truly believe in them. Others are questionable, but God remains to be the judge.
| trettep wrote: | But my awareness of the Holy Spirit is such that I know the "mechanics" or the "operation" of the Spirit if you will. I know HOW it is delivered and HOW we can know we have it. I work against an opposition that wants to come upon you and prevent you from hearing that.
Paul |
Please Paul explain to me your awareness of the Holy Spitit, I am very interested. Maybe if you give me more details of "mechanics" or the "operation" of the Spirit, I will better undersand you. You could do this through a "pm" to me, or maybe start a new post just on this subject. I am sure many others would be interested in this also. I want to have an open heart and mind to this, if I am on the wrong path please show me guidance, but please back your awareness with scripture. Thank you and God Bless.
_________________
John 5:39You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. |
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trettep
Lion
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 909
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| dpainter wrote: | | trettep wrote: | | First off dpainter - I'm not in opposition to you because I'm trying to work toward your good. Your first post was in agreement with me, but I wasn't looking for those to agree but to act. |
Well I will have to do much pundering and thinking and going back and forth to scripture before I act on what you say. | trettep wrote: | | You had said something that I wanted you to ponder further. Fellowship with others that are in opposition to the Truth will not strengthen one's Spirit no matter how compassionaite they appear. |
Paul when was the last time you'ver been to the specific church that I attend? Before you judge them maybe you should get to know them. Christ has many churches.(Romans 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you. ) So you can't judge all churches just because of a bad experience. Don't you worry about me, I am a big boy, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit I will remain on the right path.
| trettep wrote: | | Remember, even Satan can appear as an angel of light. I'm not asking you to forsake the assembling with others but to be careful in doing so. |
Trust me I am very careful, I have a wife and three boys to consider. | trettep wrote: | | In fact the Lord as others have pointed out encourages that assembly but for the purposes of the edification of His Children. What hardens one's heart is when they feel that someone is opposing them. |
Now the problem here is it my heart that is being harden or yours. I think we both need to pray on this. | trettep wrote: | | So to me it is very important that you don't get that feeling and to realize that I'm trying to help you. |
I do admit that I am not perfect and will never claim to be or I would never be here in the first place. If anything you say does help me then I will thank God for that. I hope your heart and mind is open enough to relies this for yourself also. | trettep wrote: | | As for my umbrella analogy - I picture Jesus holding it and not myself but I'm the one that must remain under it much like abiding in the vine. |
I do like this picture.
| trettep wrote: | | Regarding the Holy Spirit dpainter. I believe the Holy Spirit is one of the most misunderstood things in the Bible. The reason it is becomes very clear to me because the Holy Spirit is what Satan has a direct assault on. The Holy Spirit is the actual (Personality/Character/Nature) of the Father in Heaven. |
Would you agree this (Personality/Character/Nature) would have to apply to Christ also? Personaly I view them as three seperate persons in one GOD.
(Matthew 28:19
" Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Luke 3:22
and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him(Christ) in bodily form like a dove, and a voice(the Father's) came out of heaven, " You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.") | trettep wrote: | | It isn't a separate person but is the Person of the Father. Again, I say can you answer those questions about the Holy Spirit that I asked before? - (I'm compassionate dpainter - I don't really want you to answer it to me but in your own mind - no need to post your answers). |
| dpainter wrote: | Matthew 3:11
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Now if you want to judge me because I can't be specific that is your choice, but I believe in Christ as my Lord and Saviour and the fire does burn in me for HIS sake. |
I was raised in the Church since I was an infant, so to give you a specific time or place that I received the Holy Spirit, I can't say. I know it was at a young age, when I was in grade 5 or 6. It was at around this time that faith truly started to take over my life. That is when I really started to have that urge to want to know more about God, who he was and what he wanted, all this besause I wanted to serve Him better. Even though I might have strayed away in my teens, that inner feeling never went away, I could not shake it loose no matter how much I tried. There was a time where I doubted my own faith when I would here people talk about that sudden moment of conversion and people like you would try to convince me that if I can't remeber then I must not have the Spirit and could not be saved. But God was, is and always will be true to me and carried me along these hard times. The fact remains that by the grace of God I have Faith and I will not invent a story just to appease people like you. PS: I heard many testaments of conversion and truly believe in them. Others are questionable, but God remains to be the judge.
| trettep wrote: | But my awareness of the Holy Spirit is such that I know the "mechanics" or the "operation" of the Spirit if you will. I know HOW it is delivered and HOW we can know we have it. I work against an opposition that wants to come upon you and prevent you from hearing that.
Paul |
Please Paul explain to me your awareness of the Holy Spitit, I am very interested. Maybe if you give me more details of "mechanics" or the "operation" of the Spirit, I will better undersand you. You could do this through a "pm" to me, or maybe start a new post just on this subject. I am sure many others would be interested in this also. I want to have an open heart and mind to this, if I am on the wrong path please show me guidance, but please back your awareness with scripture. Thank you and God Bless. |
Sorry dpainter if I reply in one large group here as this forum software makes it a bit more difficult for me to follow then some of the others I frequent. I am not judging your congregation but I thought you said they were baptist and know a bit about the baptist faith so I assume that congregation would be trying to edify you into such doctrines of the Baptist faith. I two have a wife and 3 children so I can definately understand the concerns you have. I will do as you request dpainter and post another thread about the Holy Spirit. Keep an open mind and look the things I post about in scripture. I'll post it under this same forum.
Paul |
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dpainter
Little Guppy
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 33
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Paul, looking forward to your new thread on the Holy Spirit.
_________________
John 5:39You diligently study[a] the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life. |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: Re: The Gift of Faith |
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| SarahJane wrote: | | Faith is not a choice that we make it's a gift that we are given. |
And how we use it determines where we spend eternity.
| Quote: | | Faith doesn't depend on anything else it just is. . |
Romans 10:17 "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God".
Without the word of God, there is no faith !
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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