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Carico
German Shepherd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 327
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 Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject: How can people be that dishonest? |
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It is simply unbelievable to me how people can claim that apes turn into humans on their own without being able to breed with each other! This contradicts everything we know about reproduction and how genes are passed along to offspring. So how are evolutionists allowed to teach this theory to our children? It is not only blatantly dishonest but an embarrassment to the scientific community. Shouldn't we Christians do something about this? 
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Blessings in Christ,
Heidi |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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It is simply unbelievable to me how people can claim that God flooded the world, destroying all life but that which was held on a boat. We know through modern geology that there is a complete lack of evidence for any such event, but yet millions of people believe it anyway! So how are the religious allowed to teach this idea to our children? It is not only blatantly dishonest, but an embarassment to the scientific community.
Shouldn't we as rational people do something about this? :S
Oh, wait.
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When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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Carico
German Shepherd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: |
It is simply unbelievable to me how people can claim that God flooded the world, destroying all life but that which was held on a boat. We know through modern geology that there is a complete lack of evidence for any such event, but yet millions of people believe it anyway! So how are the religious allowed to teach this idea to our children? It is not only blatantly dishonest, but an embarassment to the scientific community.
Shouldn't we as rational people do something about this? :S
Oh, wait. |
And if in thousands of years, there is no evidence that you existed, does that mean you didn't exist?  There are many, many events that were supposed to have happened in history that today's scientists can find no evidence of, including lost cities and billions of people. Does that mean that that they didn't exist? So sorry, your argument is weak.
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Blessings in Christ,
Heidi |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Apples and oranges. I am not a global catastrophe.
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When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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lone-traveler
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 6365
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Apples and oranges. I am not a global catastrophe. |
I wonder what would happen if there was a global war, and everything got destroyed, ya know..
and around 2000 years from now someone says that man walked on the moon.
We are here now, we experience it now, and we write it down for the next generations.
But if those writings get destroyed, what could prove anything?
Then all you have is word of mouth, regardless if they are true, they would eventually become considered fables...
So who gets to decide fact from fiction?
Was there a flood thousands of years ago? I wasn't there, I can only tell you what I was told.
Then we have science looking for answers to the stories that have passed down. What if they're looking in the wrong places, or maybe the evidences have washed away over time...
Then we have religions and beliefs passed down, and those came from those before them...
Will there ever be a way to factually figure anything out? We know what we are, (human), we know we live, we die. We know we can build and destroy. We can love and hate. Give and take.
And we build lives on these facts.
And on these facts, faiths are built.
So if the world around you tomorrow got destroyed and yet you survived, what would your faith or hope look like?
It's all a matter of survival if you ask me.
And survival built on faith in ?.....
Is up to you to decide.
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Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| lone-traveler wrote: | | Will there ever be a way to factually figure anything out? |
When you're talking about individuals before this hypothetical global war, the answer is probably no.
If you're talking about the global war itself, the answer is yes. At least, that it happened, and likely, when.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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unschoolmom
Kitten
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 141
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:55 am Post subject: Re: How can people be that dishonest? |
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| Carico wrote: | | It is simply unbelievable to me how people can claim that apes turn into humans on their own without being able to breed with each other! This contradicts everything we know about reproduction and how genes are passed along to offspring. So how are evolutionists allowed to teach this theory to our children? It is not only blatantly dishonest but an embarrassment to the scientific community. Shouldn't we Christians do something about this? |
It's unbelievable to me that some people can start up an argument and not even have enough respect for the people they are debating with to gain a little elementry knowledge of the subject.
No one (except creationists) claim apes turn into humans or ever did turn into humans.
Put down the creationist propaganda and pick up a basic science text. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6337
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| Carico wrote: | | No one (except creationists) claim apes turn into humans or ever did turn into humans. |
I intended to say this, but I figured it would be more funny to show him how I could take what is actually said about what he believes, and show it to be "unbelievable," since it's unlikely I'd make any progress with facts.
Carico, you should look into what a Strawman fallacy is.
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When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1813
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Time Magazine
JANUARY 17, 2000 VOL. 155 NO. 2
Time Magazine link.
Excerpt:
Except for that odd side branch known as the Neanderthals, the path from proto-apes to modern humans is commonly seen as a succession of new and improved species taking the place of worn-out evolutionary clunkers.
It's a satisfying, if slightly chauvinistic tale, but experts in human evolution have known for years that it is dead wrong.
***************************************
I attended a lecture on evolution at Cal Tech in Pasadena a couple weeks ago. One of the background philosophies they gave was "tree" and "branch" outlooks. Most first year college biology students know about this, but it was new to me.
Medieval thought, and still continues to this day (largely in the US) says life is a ladder with rocks on bottom, then animals, then humans, then angels, then God, etc. This thought shows humans as having dominion over those "lower" than us, and God having dominion over us.
Evolution has shown more of a bush outlook, that animals are different branches of core species. We are a species of hominids. If visitors from another planet were to analyze DNA of all species and categorize them, we would be likely be categorized as a species of hominid, not as a seperate species. Why? There is less DNA difference between ourselves and the nearest hominid, than the difference between any other of the same species.
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SDMD
Show Poodle
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: How can people be that dishonest? |
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| Carico wrote: | | It is simply unbelievable to me how people can claim that apes turn into humans on their own without being able to breed with each other! |
]Yes, and as creationists are the ones makign up this claim, I garee that it is rather unbelievable. It shows extreme ignorance or stark dishonesty.
| Quote: | | This contradicts everything we know about reproduction and how genes are passed along to offspring. |
Yes, thanks for showing how truly ignorant creationisst actually are about even these basic aspects of science.
| Quote: | | So how are evolutionists allowed to teach this theory to our children? |
They don't. Please cease your misrepresentation. Whether deliberately or per you simply not knowing enough about this, you are now bearing false witness.
| Quote: | | It is not only blatantly dishonest but an embarrassment to the scientific community. Shouldn't we Christians do something about this? |
Christians should do something about how creationists spew false witness like the example you gave above.
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Geology: fossils of different ages
Paleontology: fossil sequence & species change over time.
Taxonomy: biological relationships
Evolution: explanation that ties it all together.
Creationism: squeezing eyes shut, wailing "DOES NOT!" |
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Carico
German Shepherd
Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 327
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: How can people be that dishonest? |
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| unschoolmom wrote: | | Carico wrote: | | It is simply unbelievable to me how people can claim that apes turn into humans on their own without being able to breed with each other! This contradicts everything we know about reproduction and how genes are passed along to offspring. So how are evolutionists allowed to teach this theory to our children? It is not only blatantly dishonest but an embarrassment to the scientific community. Shouldn't we Christians do something about this? |
It's unbelievable to me that some people can start up an argument and not even have enough respect for the people they are debating with to gain a little elementry knowledge of the subject.
No one (except creationists) claim apes turn into humans or ever did turn into humans.
Put down the creationist propaganda and pick up a basic science text. |
Do you have respect for falsehoods? If so, why? A lie is a lie. But I acknowledge that people can be ignorant but this is not the case with evolutionists. It is an elementary principle of biology that what passes along genes in each species is mating and breeding. Now either evolutionists do not know that or they know it and are lying about it when they say that ape genes simply turned into human genes on their own which is turning one species into another without mating and breeding. And since many of them have degrees in science, then it's logical to believe they know that's not how genes are passed along so they have to be lying, plain and simply. 
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Blessings in Christ,
Heidi |
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ekspiulo
Ferret
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: How can people be that dishonest? |
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| Carico wrote: | | Now either evolutionists do not know that or they know it and are lying about it when they say that ape genes simply turned into human genes on their own which is turning one species into another without mating and breeding . . . |
Now, either you're ignorant or you're stupid.(this is not intended as an insult)
Does anyone else remember evolution having something to do with breeding and some stuff about mutation?
Almost everything you post is a lie, and I will not prove this because I do not have respect for falsehoods.
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"The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job." - Sam Harris |
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SDMD
Show Poodle
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: How can people be that dishonest? |
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| Carico wrote: | | unschoolmom wrote: | | Carico wrote: | | It is simply unbelievable to me how people can claim that apes turn into humans on their own without being able to breed with each other! This contradicts everything we know about reproduction and how genes are passed along to offspring. So how are evolutionists allowed to teach this theory to our children? It is not only blatantly dishonest but an embarrassment to the scientific community. Shouldn't we Christians do something about this? |
It's unbelievable to me that some people can start up an argument and not even have enough respect for the people they are debating with to gain a little elementry knowledge of the subject.
No one (except creationists) claim apes turn into humans or ever did turn into humans.
Put down the creationist propaganda and pick up a basic science text. |
Do you have respect for falsehoods? If so, why? |
We don't; hence our disgust when creationists make false claims.
Such as what was exposed in the recent trial in Dover, where the creationist were shown to outright lie, yes.
| Quote: | | But I acknowledge that people can be ignorant but this is not the case with evolutionists. |
But creationists certainly are showing ignorance, such as when they claim that "humans decended from apes (or monkeys)" is evolution.
| Quote: | | It is an elementary principle of biology that what passes along genes in each species is mating and breeding. |
Actually, this is NOT an "elementary principle of biology" so you seem to be endorsing some misperception or misrepresentation here. You DO have knowledge of the science you are arguing against, right?
| Quote: | | Now either evolutionists do not know that or they know it and are lying about it when they say that ape genes simply turned into human genes on their own which is turning one species into another without mating and breeding. |
But then, "evolutionists" have not said what you claim. I hope this is merely an oversight and that you are not deliberately misrepresentiong what people say, right? because such bearing False Witness would be disturbing and cost you credibility in a major way.
| Quote: | | And since many of them have degrees in science, then it's logical to believe they know that's not how genes are passed along |
Indeed.
| Quote: | | so they have to be lying, plain and simply. |
No, rather, you are nmisrepresenting them. Now, YOU wouldn't be lying,would you?
_________________
Geology: fossils of different ages
Paleontology: fossil sequence & species change over time.
Taxonomy: biological relationships
Evolution: explanation that ties it all together.
Creationism: squeezing eyes shut, wailing "DOES NOT!" |
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unschoolmom
Kitten
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 141
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:14 am Post subject: Re: How can people be that dishonest? |
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| Carico wrote: |
Do you have respect for falsehoods? If so, why? A lie is a lie. But I acknowledge that people can be ignorant but this is not the case with evolutionists. It is an elementary principle of biology that what passes along genes in each species is mating and breeding. Now either evolutionists do not know that or they know it and are lying about it when they say that ape genes simply turned into human genes on their own which is turning one species into another without mating and breeding. And since many of them have degrees in science, then it's logical to believe they know that's not how genes are passed along so they have to be lying, plain and simply. |
Again, a basic science text and a bit of respect for the intelligence and knowledge of the rest of us would be advisable. You're simply playing with words here. |
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admin
Beloved Admin
Joined: 28 Sep 2000
Posts: 1813
Location: Macau, China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:16 am Post subject: |
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http://www.talkorigins.org has a pretty hefty Q&A section of common creationist misnomers and scientific responses.
Honestly, the only way I can fathom someone to look at all the evidence and still maintain that evolution is "fraud", is if their real aim is to stay on the side of scripture/fundmentalist church doctrine at any cost.
Running so many forums has given me a wealth of information these past years, and my opinions on things have changed drastically given all the new information I have learned.
As stated before, I am attending lectures at Cal Tech and getting much of my info directly from the source. At one point in my life I turned to scripture for answers on all things, at another point I turned to metaphysics, meditation and personal enlightenment. It is growing knowledge that has changed my opinion of those approaches as truly flawed when trying to reason with truths of the world around us.
The facts led me to where I am today, not ignorance.
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Favorite Octopus Video! - My Site - Studio
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