atheism

dole · Tadpole Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 27

Let's talk about all the cause and effect relationships in the universe ever as dominoes. I believe this is an analogy that fits the scenario and should help an atheist who hasn't already made up his mind. Of course, if they already discount what you say before you open your mouth, there isn't much you can do besides pray and be the best example you can. Anyway, each time a domino falls, it is because it was struck by the one before it. If time always has been (which I hope I am rightfully assuming that atheists would believe this), then you could never get back to an initial cause. There had to be a first domino. And say there didn't have to be an initial beginning; say they were just always falling. If this were the case, then our domino in time would never fall. If tracing the dominos back is a forever long journey since you never reach your destination, then transversely, traveling through time forwards, we would never reach this point in time. I hope that doesn't lose anybody.
I have a question too. In an atheist's eyes (if they believe in the Big Bang), what came before the Big Bang? Where did all that matter come from? Why would an explosion result in an orderly universe? You can't assume the world has always been here. This matter had to have an origin. It hasn't always existed.
I say time and matter's origin is God. God is many things, one of which is that He is outside of time. He created this world out of nothing. He is also all-powerful, so speaking the world into existence isn't out of His reach.

puffer · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:22 pm Post subject: atheism

puffer

quote:
Originally posted by dole:
Let's talk about all the cause and effect relationships in the universe ever as dominoes. I believe this is an analogy that fits the scenario and should help an atheist who hasn't already made up his mind. Of course, if they already discount what you say before you open your mouth, there isn't much you can do besides pray and be the best example you can. Anyway, each time a domino falls, it is because it was struck by the one before it. If time always has been (which I hope I am rightfully assuming that atheists would believe this), then you could never get back to an initial cause. There had to be a first domino. And say there didn't have to be an initial beginning; say they were just always falling. If this were the case, then our domino in time would never fall. If tracing the dominos back is a forever long journey since you never reach your destination, then transversely, traveling through time forwards, we would never reach this point in time. I hope that doesn't lose anybody.
I have a question too. In an atheist's eyes (if they believe in the Big Bang), what came before the Big Bang? Where did all that matter come from? Why would an explosion result in an orderly universe? You can't assume the world has always been here. This matter had to have an origin. It hasn't always existed.
I say time and matter's origin is God. God is many things, one of which is that He is outside of time. He created this world out of nothing. He is also all-powerful, so speaking the world into existence isn't out of His reach.

Yo! Dole! very good. My concensus exactly.
And you brought up a very good point I have been neglecting, that of God being outside of time(I knew that) and space as we are familiar with. Thomas Acquinus, to me, gives amazing thought as to existence, essence,etc and I sumise the God is indeed the essence of all things, natural and spiritual. Problematically though statistical reasoning appears to have no effect on atheists. If some one told me that a particular happening had a chance of happening exactly as it did happen in a 10 to the 80th power, that is without outside effect, I would not in the least question there being an outside effect and I did not fall off the back of a turnip truck comming into town. By the way, if anyone has handy access to such statistics, would certainly welcome them. Thanks Dole

homer · Kitten Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 135

Greetings from a newbie, and atheist. I am, by no means, here to disprove God's existence to any you, and that is not my goal. In response to Puffer's question, I thought that I could be of some help in providing an atheist's view.

I see that you already have a resident atheist in MPI, so you may have no need for my input. I have friends of many religions and have enjoyed discussing and learning about their beliefs, as they have about mine.

I look forward to future discussions.

admin · Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:30 pm Post subject:

Homer,
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homer · Kitten Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 135

admin, thanks for the welcome. happy to be here!

I neglected to respond to dole's question: