What If?

Psalm109:31 · Goldfish Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 61

I see al lot of these debates end up bad. We above all need the truth. Why can’t we talk about these gray area and find a mutual agreement with God’s word. What if we are evil within this flesh? That there is a part of us all that want to do good, but the flesh has waged war against us. That we are living in a body of death that only Jesus can save us. That we all have fallen asleep, and are all dead headed for condemnation with no Spirit within us just totally depraved. God has planned to destroy us all, just like He was after the golden calf. We are all just hopeless.

Then He provided the sacrifice, that His word is the Spirit and life we needed. That His words can wake up the dead and give it a choice to believe and be saved and not to believe and be condemned, and then made us the messenger. That before the cross we are hopeless, but God then opened the door for the world when Christ was lifted up. That He sent the Holy Spirit back to this world and it is at our door to waken us up, and all we have to do is open the door.

The wages of our sin is death, so no matter if we believe, get baptized what ever work that you do it is not by works that you are saved, but by the works of Jesus at the cross. So we are saved by grace. No man can pay the sin debt, because it is death, so it is not by works you are saved.

God has provided the sacrifice, and is given you the cloths to put on. You have to put them all.

Jesus words are Spirit and life, so you know you are naked, so put them on. It is Christ we put on.

To put your total trust in Jesus and not on your water baptism, obeying the law, your doctrine, but to totally trust in Jesus is not easy believism.

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight. [Or will direct your paths]

Job 9:29
Since I am already found guilty, why should I struggle in vain? 30 Even if I washed myself with soap [b]
and my hands with washing soda,
31 you would plunge me into a slime pit
so that even my clothes would detest me.
32 "He is not a man like me that I might answer him,
that we might confront each other in court.
33 If only there were someone to arbitrate between us,
to lay his hand upon us both,
34 someone to remove God's rod from me,
so that his terror would frighten me no more.
35 Then I would speak up without fear of him,
but as it now stands with me, I cannot.
18 "O earth, do not cover my blood;
may my cry never be laid to rest!
19 Even now my witness is in heaven;
my advocate is on high.
20 My intercessor is my friend
as my eyes pour out tears to God;
21 on behalf of a man he pleads with God
as a man pleads for his friend.
Romans 7:
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
Romans 5
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

1 Timothy 2:
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

What if it was Believers that He predestined to be saved from the beginning, that He did not predestined certain people? That this could not be done until after the cross that He prepared the way for Jesus, so that now all can come in only through HIm, those who did not believe will be condemned as the scripture says'

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:34 am Post subject:

Hi Psalm 109:31

What if it was Believers that He predestined to be saved from the beginning, that He did not predestined certain people?

Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I believe a sinner is one who does not believe in God, Psalm.
And that there are those who are sent to light the way.
And when those that were blind are able to see, then they are sent...

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Psa 86:15 But thou, O Lord, [art] a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all [men].
2Th 3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.

2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,
gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Peace and patience
Lone

Psalm109:31 · Goldfish Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 61

Jesus is not for the righteouse that believe they are going to enter heaven on their own merit, or that God loved Him more than another.

Jesus is for believer who knows they need a physician and Jesus is the physician.

Without the words of Jesus we are without hope.

We are the messenger of His word that is hope for the world.

Without the message we are dead without hope.

What we believe and are faith is given to us by God through His word.

It is our choice to accept it or not.

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:22 am Post subject:

I agree

Peace
Lone

golfjack · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:42 am Post subject: reply

Hi Jason, again, I wrote a long message, which took about 2 hours, but it didn't get through. I noticed what Psalm 109 wrote, and perhaps she explained salvation better that I could, and also that Water Baptism doesn,t save one from the depths of hell. Like, I said before, it's all about forgiveness for those who accept the fact that Jesus died on a cross, was buried, and was resurrected on the third day, and if we repent, and confess that Jesus is the only way, it is then that we are saved. Water is only external, but salvation is interenal, a spiritual cleansing. You see, the problem is in the heart or spirit of man, that needs to be changed by the washing of the Blood of the perfect lamb. It is the inward man that is saved. Paul understood this by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit very well. I would suggest that you spend most of your time in the Pauline Epistles.

May God bless, golfjack

Psalm109:31 · Goldfish Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 61

Water baptism is a symbol of the one that cames from God. John the Baptist baptized men by water, but the one that comes after him will baptize with The Holy Spirit and fire.

We are to be continued to be washed by His word and cleansed through His blood. We are to feed off of Christ, for His the mana that came down from heaven. He will always provide exactly what we need and if we gather to much and keep to ourselves it will spoil.

golfjack · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: reply

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

May God bless, golfjack

lone-traveler · Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:55 am Post subject:

I second that Amen!!

christina · Cobra Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Posts: 456

Psalm109:31 · Goldfish Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 61

Matthew 5:14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:16
So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.