Is attending a church necessary?

lone-traveler · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:06 am Post subject:

Do you think that anyone here is here without a cause?

What do you suppose the difference is between people that we are supposed to compare?

Do you suppose that people are doing and being exactly what God intended them to be doing and being, so that we can compare whether what is in them is what should or shouldn't be within ourselves?

As long as we judge whether they are right or wrong, it takes the spotlight off of our ownselves.

Is Bush right? Is he wrong?
Maybe he's right where he is because God put him there to be an example as to whether you find in yourself the qualities of good or bad.

Just the act of judging another.... well...

The whole world has become one big courthouse filled with all judges and everybody is guilty and there are none innocent. No not one.

What do they say, all chiefs and no indians..LOL...

Become an indian and work together as a tribe. There's only one chief and we are all indians.

When we realize that, then we can stop judging eachother and work as a team rather than a bunch of dictators making all the rules..

There is only one rule. Love God as he loves us. And God is in each and everyone of us. So Love eachother regardless. Only God himself is in charge of the consequences.

You know America is a nation by the people and for the people. If you don't think that the country is heading in the direction of Love thy neighbor as thyself. Then change the world around yourself. Begin to Love your neighbor as yourself and it will spread.

All depends on who's setting the fire..Amen?

If hatred starts a fire it spreads and consumes all those around it.
Well, Love is stronger than hate. So try starting that fire and watch it take off and consume hate and turn it into brotherly love.

Judgment has to stop. Love has to take control.
But Love needs action. And action comes by the thoughts and deeds of people. So Love begins with us.

Who's got the matches???....

Feel this.... ready..... (((HUG)))
from me to you

Lone
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

SarahJane · Alley Cat Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 177

Hello Lone. I agree with your message but I do worry for people who who are following the example Bush is giving for Christianity. The Bible says to watch out for false prophets and that we will recognize them by what they do.

Is it judgmental to call Bush a false Prophet, or is it pointing out that people are on a bad path when they follow Bush and showing how Bush is leading people away from God?

If Bush were just another political leader it would not matter, but Bush is claiming to receive guidance from God. Do we really recognize the Holy Spirit in Bush? He talks a good game but look at what he has done. We will know them by their works, not what they say or what they do for show.

15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

What are the fruits of Bush? Hungry children, angry Christians, dead soldiers, the wealthy growing in money and power. Are those the works of a Christian? Bush made religion political and used the faith of millions for political gain. Bush has millions who would follow without question because he claims to be a Christian. We are ignoring the truth of love because our president has become a spiritual icon. This is damaging to the Christian faith.

golfjack · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:36 am Post subject: reply

Again, you most certainly can disagree with the policies of the Bush administration. I agree with Lone about loving our neighbors and enemies. However, let's go by the facts. Did the administration help the poor in this country? Do you know that under Bush, money for poverty has increased by 40 percent, more than any other administration? Money has increased for education by 60 percent? WE have only 5 percent unemployment? The ecomony has improved by leaps and bounds since 911? Have we been attacked since 911? Is the global war on terror a just war? Are we fighting evil? There has always been wars fought for our freedoms. Did we liberate 50 million Afghans and Iraquis? It is the Presidents job to protect the people from those who want to destroy us. Is it wrong for a president to pray? Is it wrong to support faith based groups? Is it wrong give money to radicate the aids epedemic? Is it wrong to support Israel? Is it wrong to give money to the People in LA, Miss., and Alabama to the tune of about 70 billion dollars and growing? Is it wrong to appoint judges who law and not make law? Did you know that the liberals have been using your tax dollars to help poverty for about 40 years? Has it worked? I say no. If one wishes to live in a socialistic state, I suggest you move to Europe, where God has been effectively taken out of government. Does Bush want the 10 Commandments to be displayed? Isn't our great country based on Christian principles? Now, what do you say about Bush being a Godly man. Also after reading the sermon on the mount, I believe Bush is setting a good example.

May God bless, golfjack

SarahJane · Alley Cat Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 177

SarahJane · Alley Cat Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 177

Coincidentally, all of this brings me back to my original point about going to a church. I have avoided going to church because of the political nature of too many churches. I don't care if a person wants to be involved in politics but policies that are against what the Bible teaches should never be accepted as the will of God only because someone claims to be guided by God. We need to be much more diligent than to allow a boisterous claim to keep us from seeing the truth.

So, back to the original question:

Is going to church necessary? If so, how does a person know which church is on the right path?

TeeJoe · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:14 am Post subject:

SarahJane · Alley Cat Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 177

I must not have been very clear in my message. Bush has made the claim that he is guided by God in this administration. He can call himself a Christian and I would accept that but I see nothing Godly in his policies.

The danger is the way his policies separate people from God because people support everything he does, no matter how ungodly it is because he says that he is godly. Hitler also claimed to be a Christian. How many lives could have been spared if people stood up and pointed out how ungodly his policies were?

Bush could be a Christian who does not mix politics and religion and I would be fine with that, again though, Bush is claiming these policies are the will of God. Show me what is Godly about this administration and I won't be quite as worried about what it does to Christians to believe that the Bush policies are in line with the Bible.

TeeJoe · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:45 am Post subject:

SarahJane · Alley Cat Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 177

golfjack · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: reply

I will end this debate. I encourage you not to listen to a voice of a stranger, but listen to the mighty voice of God. If you are a born again Christian, I pray that you follow your heart.

May God bless, golfjack

TeeJoe · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject:

TeeJoe · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: reply

lone-traveler · Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject:

They say you shouldn't mix politics and religion together LOLOL

The thread is about ????

1. stop worrying about other people. get yourself right first with god.

2. there is no such thing as a perfect person, therefore there will never be a perfect president.

3. If you want perfection in another you have to create it in yourself first, which is impossible because we are all imperfect.

4. To change the world to be a better place. The best place to start is teaching little children to be better people.

5. In order to teach little children to be better people, you need to improve your own imperfections.

6. Don't judge other people according to your standards. Learn to live by the standards you have set for yourself.

7. If you don't like what you see about the yourself, then learn to change it in yourself.

8. First teach yourself, then your children, and when the children grow up they may become better presidents.

9. Better presidents are better people who were taught by better parents to be better children.

10. People who love other people as much as they love their children, will make better senators and better congressmen, and better, representatives, and better judges, and better Governors, and better mayors, and better communities, and better cities, and towns, and families, and more children. Which will become a better world as a whole.

11. when is a better time to start than now?

12. Who is better to begin this process then us?

13. We may not be able to change what is today, but we can surely try to change what tomorrow may bring.

14. Everybody is waiting for everybody else to make the first move. Why don't we make that change together and begin today to change tomorrow.

God gave us the power and the faith to move mountains. Sometimes first you have to move a little stone, then as you get stronger you can move bigger obstacles. Until that mountain gets picked up and thrown in the sea.

We all have the power to change ourselves but do we have the faith to make that change.

If our world is all screwed up today and we just sit and wait for the next generation to fix it....
And the next generation has even less love and compassion for the next guy....
Self-fulfilling prophecy. Will we destroy ourselves by destroying the Love in our children?

A friend of my daughter's had just gotten her drivers licence. About two weeks behind the wheel, she looks at my daughter and says:

What does merge mean?

and then she asked... what does yield mean?

My daughter said... Let me out of the car...LOLOL

Sometimes you just have to give...

Hugs
Lone.
_________________
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

SarahJane · Alley Cat Joined: 20 Nov 2005 Posts: 177

Uh, I was told that 'liberal' churches are not good by golfjack. I used the Bible to explain why I'm unimpressed with political churches, especially churches that demand political affiliations, which usually means republican.

I don't expect a president to be perfect or to be a perfect Christian but I am very disturbed by someone who claims to be guided by God but makes legislation that hurts millions when it's not at all in keeping with the Bible. He can make those changes as a politician but to say that they are the will of God is a danger. I never said not to bring the Bible into the voting booth, if we are voting as Christians then we cannot bring small parts of the Bible with us and ignore the teachings of Jesus.

I don't believe that Christian values should be legislated, that goes against what the Bible teaches us about free will. I think it isn't up to the government to get individuals into heaven, it's up to the Christian community to help others avoid sin.

I don't believe hateful and angry messages are going to help people want to make the right choices. If we are shouting "God hates fags!" are we really expecting a homosexual to ask us the way to heaven? When we are hateful we push people away from God instead of drawing them near.

I did post that I am struggling with faith. I've had an incredibly painful last 10 years and that pain is what separated me from faith. I might not have the experience of an evangelical preacher but I know a lot of what keeps otherwise decent people from faith. That's the lessons I have learned from being away from faith and not feeling the love of God.

Yes, the Bible tugs at us, we should be hard on ourselves and gentle with others. I'm much more self-critical than most will understand. I'm also much more loving and forgiving of others than I am with myself.

I don't hate Bush at all. I hate that so many believe that what he is doing is Christian and that so many more offer excuses for him because he claims to be godly but his actions are not Godly. I would excuse that myself without his claim that he is doing the will of God.

We are not suppose to judge, that is very correct. We cannot sit idly by while millions of people are trying to follow the example of Bush believing it's Christian. When cults are formed people do everything possible to keep society from falling victim to the false teachings of the cult. Why is it any different to say that the ungodly policies of an administration that claims to make its decisions based on God are not in line with Biblical teachings?

It isn't what Bush believes, or his politics that are the problem, it's that he abuses the faith of millions of people for political gain. He has exploited Christian beliefs for personal gain. I don't see why anyone would think me bad for stating that it's wrong to do that.