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joman
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 746
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 Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Wobjob wrote: | | One must understand that the brain is an organ, and the "mind" and the brain are the same thing |
Eks,
As far as I can tell we agree on this. It's wobjob that thinks everything is decided for you including what you believe.
Ps:If the mind and the brain were the same thing, then the brain would be... the mind. And, all brain functions would be therefore be a mental function.
But, this isn't true. There are brain functions not under the control of the mind. And also, there are mind functions that aren't under control of the brain. One of the functions the brain doesn't control is, a person's will.
Joman. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6110
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Mind-affecting drugs can't affect the "soul," they are material. Yet, a person's personality, mode of thinking, can change utterly while on mind-affecting drugs.
Make sense yet?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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ekspiulo
Ferret
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| joman wrote: |
Ps:If the mind and the brain were the same thing, then the brain would be... the mind. And, all brain functions would be therefore be a mental function. |
What I've been saying it that isn't true at all. An effect of a car with a running engine is the car driving around, but the car and the driving aren't the same thing at all. Driving is a sensation or an effect of the car. Don't take this analogy in any other direction. It is just that, an analogy to aid in understanding of my position. I'm not saying the properties of the car and moving are equivelant to those of the mind and brain except in a very limited respect, which I have stated. Also, the notion that a car may have a driver is irrelevant and part of the situation of a car but not part of my explanation via analogy. The driver in a car is no more part of the process of the car moving than the cars door or luggage in the trunk.
In the way that moving is an effect of a running car, consciousness is an effect of a living brain. Niether the movement nor consciousness is real in any sense other than they are a state of being for the thing which "generates" them.
_________________
"The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job." - Sam Harris |
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joman
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 746
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| FFT wrote: | | Mind-affecting drugs can't affect the "soul," they are material. Yet, a person's personality, mode of thinking, can change utterly while on mind-affecting drugs. |
This true. It's also true that a completely sober person can be med to believe a false notion. My only point with Wobjob is that we have a measure of freewill with which we decide our course of action. And, therefore we are responsible.
Joman. |
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