Violence in the Bible

Zathrus · Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 8:18 pm Post subject: Violence in the Bible

quote:
Originally posted by hungryfish:
...how can we declare a pre-emptive strike against Iraq as Christian?

I have a problem with our last several presidents dropping God's name in connection with their policies and decisions as though to say they have His stamp of approval, or worse yet, were His idea.

I too would like to see peaceful solutions to world situations. And I have not given up hope that it's possible. I think our present leaders are too stupid to choose that path.

Mixing nationalism and spirituality is totally inappropriate in my opinion. Maybe there are times we as a country have to do what we have to do, but I have little respect for anyone who drags God's name into it.

Matdvd · Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:34 pm Post subject: Violence in the Bible

Let's ask this question:

(We will use Iraq, since it's on the forefront of media lately.)

If Iraq is a place where all the peaceful intentions and actions on the planet will not help to keep them from attacking innocent others, then what do we do?

We can sit by and say, "Oh, that sucks. I wish I could do something, but I am peaceful, and would rather the evil runs it's course, than do anything. Maybe it will go away..."

Or, let's say you come home at 3am from a late night at work, to find that the front door has been kicked in, your teenage son is laying dead on your front room floor from a gunshot wound, and you hear your wife screaming in the back bedroom.

"Oh boy, this sucks. I am non-violent. I hope all goes okay. Maybe he'll just loose interest. I think I'll call the cops so they can kill the person theirselves. No, I can't do that. That wouldn't be peaceful..."

Give me a break.

Now I know that these examples are mostly self-defense examples, but fact is, just because violence is unsettling, and it is, doesn't mean it is always wrong or evil. Sometimes it is downright necessary. The bigger evil is sometimes not to do anything.

Unfortunately, the world we live in, with choice, means people are going to make some really stupid choices. Choices that will effect your right to choose, or live. And their choices will force us to make our own choices. It isnt' something you ask for, but are given.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that, let's say the al-Quada idiots, aren't going to stop killing Americans, until they are dead themselves. You can have summit after summit, and it will never change. Have you ever noticed that the clip they use on CNN, that shows those fellas training at the camp, and they rush into the building to shoot the people targets with a cross and a star of David on the chest? Hummm. The clips mostly have been edited to cut off just before that part since the media doesn't want the world to know that.

Just like the guy in your house. Either he is going to die, or you will....it's really both of your choices. And when he is bent on killing you, what do you do?

In saying all that, don't pretend to say that because God instructed his people to kill those who were bent on killing them, during the old testament times, that He is a hateful, and evil God. That's pretty offensive to me, even though I'm sure He doesn't sweat your anger towards Him. And in reality, this is what this whole discussion is really about, isn't it?

There have been those times that the only alternative was violence. When evil was allowed to run it's course and the whole world was nothing but evil, God packed up a family, and drowned the rest.

In evolution terms, their death was nothing. In spiritual terms, their death was nothing either. Apparently their destiny was set already and letting them live out more years of evil, would have been pointless.

If an evolutionist, it didn't even happen at all. If Christian, you know God wouldn't have done it if it wasn't necessary. He didn't create us to kill us. Duh.

In a world where we all are just monkeys from slime, it is nothing more than survival of the fittest, right? Without a God, there is absolutely nothing wrong with murder. All the animals do it. I say kill each other and eat up. We may be missing out on some awesome chili or the new burger at McDonalds, right?

How soon the evolutionists forget that Hilter loved the idea of evolution. Then he could justify survival of the fittest race too. Oh yeah, he loved Darwin, that's for sure. Alot of those wonderful dictators loved Darwin's theory, if memory serves.

So the writing of the OT explain a time when groups of people were against one another. When one group of people followed to the best of their ability, the creator God, who helped them along the way. When they came against another society that was bent on destoying them, down to the last person, what choice did they have but to kill or be killed?

Times really haven't changed that much. Granted, it's a big 'ole world now, and most countries have been able to live in peace with each other. "You don't bother me, and I won't bother you..." It's been nice.

However, there are times when death is the only way to stop someone from destroying you.

If you would like, I could address each "evil and hateful" scene you have randomly picked out of the OT, one at a time. Remember, I will have to do some research on each one, so to know the whole background of the picture, and not just the verse that disturbs you so much. I'm a claims adjuster, not a theological wonder.

Anyone with half a brain, and has read in it's entirety, knows that the OT and the NT flows together wonderfully....and that's it's a book given in love, by a Daddy wanting to just love His kids....nothing less. And as a daddy myself, and an extremely nonviolent person, if someone was going to kill my kids unless I killed the offender first....well sorry, but that person is as good as dead. I'd probably be scarred for life, but my kids would live...period.

So let's hear it. Sorry I was away for such a long time. Working my rear off. Okay, and being lazy too.

victoria · Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:10 pm Post subject: Violence in the Bible

Hello... what an interesting topic. I am new, my name is victoria, so hello everyone.

I believe that the bible is clear that God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. The bible also clearly tells us that God so loved the world that he sent us His Son. That gift was born out of God's love for us. I do not believe this world's evil and what we do as sinful men can be pinned on our God. I guess one must ask, why God gave his Son,and if that plan, born of love, has changed since the plan was made. It occurs to me that when God made Lucifer, He knew that Lucifer would rein on this earth. God allows both bad and good to come to all people because He is no respector of individual people, but He does hates evil but in that way, we can be overcomers through His Son. My God is not evil, for evil could never be apart of the God that I know. Recalling what the writer of Hebrews said, that the old covenent is a 'school-master which teaching us and shows us that we each need a Savior. Looking at the old covenant is liking looking at a mirror and seeing a dirty face. There is no cleansing power in that covenant. Only the understanding that, without being cleansed, I am dirty and lost. I need a Savior. All things throughout history are allowed, I believe to bring those that He loves to Him. Look at what the early christians endured. Reading the book of Revelations, one can see that they were overcomes, but we have been blessed to have never endured such as they did. He allows chastisement to fall on each of us and we sometimes must endure that. And it is because of Him, and who I am as His child that I can attempt that. I believe that the OT, shows us how we can not do it without Christ. Afterall, he said that all of those incredible prophets, like John the Baptist, were less that we, who are on this side of Christ and his resurection. How we respond to our helplessness is what it is all about, isn't it? Believing God is evil is counter to who we, as believers know about God. Afterall, let's not forget, as I do at times, that this world is not what it is about. When we try to make this a place where there is no evil, we forget that this happens for us in Heaven. Here we will encounter evil, because sin lives and reigns here. It is in Heaven that we will be the ultimate overcomers. Until then, we must know that times can be hard and we must remain faithful and trusting in Him who hold the future in His hads.
Thanks for letting me be bold and May God Bless. V

hungryfish · Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:40 pm Post subject: Violence in the Bible

Very nice post for a newbee Victoria. I look forward to hearing more from you.

Blessings

WittenbergDoors · Not So Newbie Joined: 18 Oct 2002 Posts: 6

There has been much talk on this board of the "violent" God of the OT.

Lets not forget...this was not the year 2002...cable, Jerry Springer for amusement, and fast food on every corner.

Tribal wars were fierce...and weather it was the god Dagon of the Philistines, or Baal or Amun-Re of the Eyptians...there was one God who seemed to deliver his people again and again. The God of the Israelites..Jehovah...Yahweh.....The Lord God of Hosts!

I am that I am......he said to Moses.

This was a fight for existence. It was for keeps. No middle ground, no CNN, no diplomats...kill or be killed.

So I am not really surprised to hear of wars, and violence, rebels and traitors, kings and Princesses, soldiers and prophets risking the ultimate sacrifice for survival.

Matdvd · Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:02 pm Post subject: Violence in the Bible

Excellent points, both of you.

I don't know whether to welcome you two hear, or have you welcome me back...it's been a while.

Glad to meet ya though!

God Bless!!

Nobby · Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:38 pm Post subject: Violence in the Bible

Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to quote some of God's word!
Matthew 24:1
Heading.(The Temple Will be Destroyed)
(1) After Jesus left the temple,his disciples came over and said, "look at all these buildings!"
(2) Jesus replied, "Do you see these building? They will certainly be torn down! Not one stone will be left in place."
(3)Later as Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, His disciples came toHim in private and ask, "when will this happen?
What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the world?"
(4) Jesus answered:
Don't let anyone fool you.
(5) Many will come and claim to be me. They will say they are the Messiah, and they will fool many people.
(6) You will soon hear about wars, and threats of wars, but don't be afraid. These things will have to happen first, but that isn't the end. (7) Nations and kingdoms will go to war against each other. People will starve to death, and in some places there will be earthquakes. (8) But this is just the begining of troubles.
(9) You will be arrested, punished, and even killed . Because of Me, you will be hated by people of all nations. (10) Many will give up
and will betray and hate each other.
(11) Many false prophets will come and fool a lot of people. (12) Evil will spread and cause many people to stop loving others.
(13) But if you keep on being faithful right to the end, you will be saved!
(14) When the good news about the kingdom has
been preached all over the world and told to all nations, the end will come.
-----------------------------
It seems pretty evident that there will be wars,and rumers of wars, it can only get worse.
We can talk peace, peace!! Not gonna Happin'
Read what the bible says about it!
God bless all,
Nobby

[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 10-29-2002).]

desertgirl · Newbie Alert Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 2

I read all your viewpoints with great interest. To give God our human emotions if probably a big mistake. God is the creator and it is His/Her nature to do so. To try to humanize Him/Her is to bring Him/Her down to our level. If all the Great Creator of the Universe is is a jealous, vengeful, God, I give up now.

P. S.
I personally like the hammer analogy.