Sinner's prayer

dole · Tadpole Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 27

Any thoughts?

A couple I have are:
1)All prayers (except Jesus') are sinner's prayers because they are said by sinners.
2)If sinner's prayers were all we need to do, then Philip would have told the eunuch: "Say this prayer with me..."

I know this is related to my baptism topic I just started. Sorry about that. My goal is not dissension. I just want to hear people's reasoning, and discuss the merits and flaws. I love you guys and want this to help people, not hinder and bring about ugly feelings.

Van · Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 5:11 pm Post subject: Sinner's prayer

You do not have to pray a sinners prayer to be saved.

Nobby · Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2003 7:41 pm Post subject: Sinner's prayer

quote:
Originally posted by Van:
You do not have to pray a sinners prayer to be saved.

Van, I found this in John 9:31
John 9:31 Now we Know that God hearth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God,and doeth His will, him He heareth.

The only prayer God hears from a sinner is the humble prayer of repentance!
God's blessings,
------------------
Nobby

Jesus wept!

[This message has been edited by Nobby (edited 02-05-2003).]

ariella · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:20 am Post subject: Sinner's prayer

In thinking about this, one question I have especially as it applies to what I hear people saying online is does the sinners prayer save you? Several times I've seen people come into a chatroom online and they were asked if they knew Christ or not; then asked if they want to, several minutes later they say "repeat after me this prayer" .... the person does and then gets told they are saved????? To me, this makes little sense ... surely we need to have some knowledge of who Christ is before making such a decision; like where Jesus tells us to count the cost. Yet they say it saves because you have confessed outloud that you are a sinner, and that Jesus is Lord. In my mind the prayer of a repentant person truly confessing is more important than the words used.

dole · Tadpole Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 27

The "sinner's prayer" is based on a couple of verses. But when you are talking about salvation, you need to look at the New Testament as a whole. I'm not all against the thing, but I don't think it needs to stop there.

quote
Quote:

In my mind the prayer of a repentant person truly confessing is more important than the words used.

I agree with this. And remember, a repentant person isn't through after confessing. Jesus didn't call us to just make a confession, we are to pick our crosses daily and follow him.

Nobby · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:38 pm Post subject: Sinner's prayer

Dole,
I don't believe it does stop there!
But when I pray the "sinners prayer" and humble myself to Him & confess my sins. The Holy Spirit will enter into my heart and I am saved. If Jesus returned at that moment I would find myself in heaven.
Now comes the second part. Pick up your cross
and follow me! This we need to do daily!

I agree we are all sinners save by the Grace of God!
Even Christians sin. But there's a big difference. When a true Christian sins the Holy Spirit chastises us for it. And we ask forgiveness!
We are still in the flesh, we sin!
---------------------

Nobby

Jesus wept!

dole · Tadpole Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 27

I guess we'll have to disagree on that point. The Holy Spirit is received upon baptism (Acts 2:38). I'm not saying someone who sees their sinfulness, confesses Jesus as the Son of the Living God, and repents of their sin but gets interrupted before getting baptized is going to Hell. Rarely, and I mean rarely, would I say whether a particular person was going to Hell. It's not my call. I just think baptism gets downplayed so much because of presupposed bias. The scriptures provide plenty of reason for it. This kind of belongs under baptism I suppose. Anyway, the "sinner's prayer" is man-made. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's not what "brings Jesus into your heart." It's an extrabiblical formulated prayer that doesn't have a biblical equivalent. I think we should go to the Bible for answers regarding salvation.

Perhaps we aren't thinking of the same "sinner's prayer." I'm familiar with pamphlets or people repeating after the preacher and that after saying these words, Jesus is now supposedly in the person's heart.

puffer · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 4:46 pm Post subject: Sinner's prayer

quote:
Originally posted by dole:
I guess we'll have to disagree on that point. The Holy Spirit is received upon baptism (Acts 2:38). I'm not saying someone who sees their sinfulness, confesses Jesus as the Son of the Living God, and repents of their sin but gets interrupted before getting baptized is going to Hell. Rarely, and I mean rarely, would I say whether a particular person was going to Hell. It's not my call. I just think baptism gets downplayed so much because of presupposed bias. The scriptures provide plenty of reason for it. This kind of belongs under baptism I suppose. Anyway, the "sinner's prayer" is man-made. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's not what "brings Jesus into your heart." It's an extrabiblical formulated prayer that doesn't have a biblical equivalent. I think we should go to the Bible for answers regarding salvation.

Perhaps we aren't thinking of the same "sinner's prayer." I'm familiar with pamphlets or people repeating after the preacher and that after saying these words, Jesus is now supposedly in the person's heart.

Dole. Hi. Which is more important, What Our Lord actually said, or what was taught about what he said? Is it not one and the same and only a matter of semantics? Forgive my lengthyness. Jesus said,"Believe on the Lord and thou shat be saved". Period. He further taught that all that believe on Him shall not come into condemnation. Also period. When a person is saved He receives a work of the Holy Spirit and there are many works of the Holy Spirit as you know. Another work of the Spirit as given on the day of Pentecost, that is the gifts to the Church. The sealing power of the Spirit which the ernest of God's promises is given at redemption/salvation of the soul. The purpose of baptism is, among many other things, the doorway to the church.
Without entering this door a person does not have access the the gifts given to the Church
but one is not "lost", witness the thief on the cross, but such a one cannot render to God the glory God created us to do, for God receives his honor and glory in the church by Christ Jesus. Such a one also will stand before "his Savior" empty handed. You see,
belief on(not in, the devils believe and tremble)the Lord Jesus Christ brings immediate salvation of the soul but it is in the church that one's life's works are saved.
Rewards are reckoned by works. There is no doubt according to John's writings that many will be saved in the great tribulation for John "saw" them. But the manner and time of their acceptance of Christ will be immediate and terminal under the rule of the Beast and false prophet. These you see most probably will not have time for baptism, just belief
but John saw them on the sea of Glass in glory.God is indeed no respector of persons.
There is only one way to be saved and there is only one way to save one's life's works.
There is a difference you see. Sent only in the spirit of Love. Appriciate yours replys in the other forum.

puffer · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:21 pm Post subject: Sinner's prayer

quote:
Originally posted by dole:
Any thoughts?

A couple I have are:
1)All prayers (except Jesus') are sinner's prayers because they are said by sinners.
2)If sinner's prayers were all we need to do, then Philip would have told the eunuch: "Say this prayer with me..."Hi? Booy am I hyped up tonight. I love this. Yall keep talking, it is ambrosia(Spiritually that is) Any thing spoken to God can be said to be a prayer. Agreed? But words do not have to be spoken orally, only thought but are still words. I agree to the concept of a sinner's prayer but not one of rote. As thoughts cannot be suppressed(unless unconcious) actual mental activity of believing on Christ cannot deny the accompanying mental activity, words, prayer.
As far as confessing with the mouth, who has been saved and not confessed it, in thanks to God, in joy to others. But, repeat after me? That's a far stretch for me, how about you.

I know this is related to my baptism topic I just started. Sorry about that. My goal is not dissension. I just want to hear people's reasoning, and discuss the merits and flaws. I love you guys and want this to help people, not hinder and bring about ugly feelings.

------------------

dole · Tadpole Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 27

Hey Nobby and puffer, I'll address a point made by Nobby first.

Nobby said:

quote
Quote:

But when I pray the "sinners prayer" and humble myself to Him & confess my sins. The Holy Spirit will enter into my heart and I am saved.

This is what you say. But where does scripture support this idea? Scriptures say to believe in Jesus (Hebrews 11:6), confess that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9), repent of your sins (Acts 2:38), be baptized (1 Peter 3:21-22), and live the faithful life (Rev. 2:10). There are other verses, I just picked one spot for each point. I am not saying that you earn salvation by any means. It is a gift of God. But as far as works are concerned, Van put it very well when he said "Works proves salvation, it does not provide salvation." Why do you say that that is the time when the Holy Spirit enters your heart? I find that scripturally unfounded.

And for puffer...
"Believe on the Lord and thou shalt be saved."

I agree with that completely. I do. Understand me. I don't avoid that verse or pretend it's not there. I love that promise. But reading one sentence does not negate everything else Jesus said or the rest of the Bible. Jesus also stressed repentance in Luke 13:5. Taking that by itself would tell us that repenting would keep us from perishing. He didn't mention believing there. But of course that one verse doesn't mean that repenting is all you have to do. Likewise, taking that one sentence about believing does not negate repentance. They work together with all the other verses in the Bible. You have to look at the Bible as a whole.

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46

Jesus commanded we baptize believers, I say do it.

I don't agree with you on your interpretation of Acts 2:38. This is from your post under the topic of Baptism, but I'll quote it so you will know to what I am referring.

quote:
So the first part of the double message is "believe" and besaved to which I know you agree and it's counterpart in Acts is "repent" which is simply the obvious by product for how can one turn to Christ without turning away from sin. The second part is what confuses folks. to read the Acts' scripture would be like this, to paraphrase it: Repent(be saved) and be baptized in the name of Jesus(to enter the Church and and have access to the Spiritual gifts given only to the Church.

I don't separate repent and be baptized. The Jews asked what they needed to do to be saved, and Peter told them. Your interpretation is just that, an interpretation. When Jesus said to believe and you will be saved, there was not yet a Christian baptism. After he resurrected, his "great commission," the last message he left with the apostles, called for baptism.

The thief on the cross is a bad example. There was no such thing as Christian baptism while Jesus was on the cross. He had not resurrected yet, nor had Jesus yet commanded that it be done, which would be ridiculous because Jesus had not yet been crucified, buried, and resurrected.

Another bad example would be the ones saved in the tribulation, for we are not in the tribulation right now.

Here I am at the end of the post. I can tell you I see this going no where, just like every other dispute between different doctrines usually do. I know both of us are sure of ourselves, or else we probably wouldn't post. I hate not getting the last word, but I believe I'll let you have it. I hope I've made myself clear. I can't promise that I won't post again if I feel like I or the discussion ends in a misleading way. But I do respect you for your thoughts and love for Christ. And yes, to me, repeat after me is a far stretch.

[This message has been edited by dole (edited 02-05-2003).]

Nobby · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 10:44 pm Post subject: Sinners Prayer

Hi dole,
I would like to answer at the moment with a few questions?

1: How can you be saved without the Holy Spirit?
2: When you were saved who did you ask into your heart?
3: Do you believe in the Trinity?
4: Do you believe that The Father, The Son & The Holy Spirit are the same.
5:If He wasn't in my heart, then who protected me from Satan until I was water baptized the next summer almost a year later?
6: Did the Holy Spirit enter my heart and soul then?
7: Or was it 3 years later when I was baptized in the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues?
8: Is there a difference between water baptism & baptism of the Spirit?

I'm sorry dole, I don't mean to sound so defensive on this. I've been wrong many times before.
_________________
Much Love Nobby
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Phinehas · Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Sinner's prayer