End Times Debate

joman · Grizzly Bear Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 716

Stokey,

With reference to the AV Bible the translation "presence" leads to the idea of a "secret coming" of Jesus which is contrary to the discourse of Jesus in Matthew 24:23.

By the way your NWT comes fromw what Greek text?

Joman.

joman · Grizzly Bear Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 716

Stokey · Ferret Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 122

Joman:

The New World Translation is based on the Westcott and Hort master Greek text. An initial invisible presence is in harmony with Jesus' words in Matthew 24. For instance, Jesus points to human appearances as being misleading (24:5, 6, 23-26); then, he tells us that his "presence" will be seen globally (24:27, 28). Then, significantly, he says: "the sign of the son of man will appear in heaven." With what effect? "All the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation." What then? "They will see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven."--24:30, 31.

Yes, Jesus' invisible presence, recognised by its "sign," is seen only be faithful followers. Jesus "coming" for judgment, concluding his presence, is 'seen' by "all the nations."--Matthew 25:31-33.

Regards,

Stokey.

joman · Grizzly Bear Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 716

Stokey,

Your whole discussion is useless to me. Anybody can change the words of scripture and then explain how it means something completely different than some other text. The 'new world translation' is a corrupt text. And, Lucifer was the master of Wescott and Hort.

Joman.

joman · Grizzly Bear Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 716

Matthew 24 14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

The gospel of the kingdom is the gospel that when believed allowe the kingdom of God to abide within a person. There exists no basis for believing that the "gospel of the kingdom" is different than the "gospel of Jesus Christ". Some wish it were so, however. The one's who wish it so, are the one's who want the "Olivet discourse of Matthew 24" to not, disprove their false gospel of the "pre-tribulation rapture of the church of Jesus Christ". They, therefore, seek to lie to Christians who aren't willing to take heed, as Jesus requested of them, and get them to wrongly divide the word of God in such manner as to say that the Olivet discourse only applies to the Jews.

It's obvious that the only gospel that is needed, or ordained by God in scripture to be preached in all the world is the salvation gospel of Jesus Christ that Paul preached.

All the world as well as all the nations shall receive the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ. All the nations receive a witness and they shall be judged according to their treatment of the witness they receive. Many barriers exist to prevent this. However, the demand upon Satan to deceive the whole world so as to attempt to prevent the arrival of the kingdom of God in the person of Jesus Christ as it's king, plus his lust for worship of himself is forcing his hand. He must institute a one world language (English; since that's the language of the AV) to counter the division of tongues that occurred at the tower of Babel which produced the nations in the first place. He must also provide for the free flow of knowledge, information, technology mechandizing and persons to have any chance at devouring the Jews and The Christians. He must defeat all of them since the return of Jesus demands a remnant of the Jewish nation come to Jesus Christ, collectively, as Christians. I've already discussed this. The Christians must be defeated because they carry the frightful truth of the gospel and possess the authority of Jesus' name to the overthrow and embarrass the Devil. We Christians tread upon serpents of every ilk and Satan well knows it. I for one have experienced his submission to the wonderful name of Jesus. No argument necessary. Beware of sly *Baloney Pop* however. The Devil dare not show his face until he has a powerful grip on media and the power of governments large and small and up and down the tiers of them as prophesied in Daniel when god tells us that the antichrist shall stand up when the transgressors come to a full. that is when every level government in the world society has transgressors in power then he can stand up. If he doesn't wait till then it can easily be shown that the littlest child who is a Christian can defeat him. Thus he must use all his power of deceit lest he shame himself before all. So when all the world is gathered under his power through the necessary free flow of the above mentioned things his wekness will be taken advantage of. The gospel of Jesus will spread rapidly through the very means given to attack the Christians and Jews and with the impetus exactly the same as was given the early church that refused to obey Jesus and tried to set up shop in Jerusalem. America is as Jerusalem was.

All the world is a necessary point because within each nation are significant sub groups. Nation, languages, tribes excetra. The AV is very specifc and leaves nothing out.

The gospel having been thus preached in all the world and all the nations as a witness unto them the end shall come. But, note that it says then shall the end come. Not then shall the end be. So, the coming of the end begins its rapid coming at the moment when God has achieved his goal of offering all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

Also, the gospel must be preached. It isn't to be debated and argued but, we simply must tell the truth about Jesus and man's predicament with clarity, loudness and simplicity.

Joman.

joman · Grizzly Bear Joined: 07 Jun 2004 Posts: 716

Everyone,

See ya Tuesday after the holiday.

Joman.