The Promises of Perfection: Are they for real?

Dust · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:51 pm Post subject:

Greetings Climbing Higher,

This principle works to ease your mind and the minds of all those around you. I've applied it to my life and know it's immense value.......
Proverbs 19:11 A man's wisdom gives him patience; it is to his glory to overlook an offense.

An offense can easily be overlooked when you clothe yourself with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience, and real love.

Overlooking an offense also allows these attributes to multipy in your life.....
Galatians 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

As a sinner you are the focus of Christ............
1 Timothy 1:15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

It is through faith and patience that we will see what is hoped for......
Hebrews 6:12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised

My greatest hope here on earth is for the people in my life. I pray that God will not allow me to fail them in anyway, and that He will pour out love and peace upon them, and take care of them, and shelter them and keep them from harm. I pray that He molds me into the man He wants me to be and make me effective in helping those whom I love so dearly.

Here is a perspective from the wisest man who ever lived...........
Ecclesiastes 2:22For what has a man left from all his labor and from the striving and vexation of his heart in which he has toiled under the sun?
23For all his days are but pain and sorrow, and his work is a vexation and grief; his mind takes no rest even at night. This is also vanity (emptiness, falsity, and futility)!
24There is nothing better for a man than that he should eat and drink and make himself enjoy good in his labor. Even this, I have seen, is from the hand of God.
Verse 24 here is very soothing to me.
_________________
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Climbing Higher · Tadpole Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 17

JP and Thunder, what you two posted makes perfect sense to me. That's what I hear God saying in the Bible. So, the answer to my question, When do the promises of God apply to us?, it's when we are dead to sin and alive in Christ. Everything depends on us abiding in Jesus. If we break our connection to Christ, then those promises no longer apply to us, not while we are in a disconnected state. Repentance, of course, restores the relationship our sin severed and, once restored to the mind of the new man, God's promises apply to us again. Therefore, the whole of Christianity must, necessarily, focus on doing whatever it takes to stay connected to Christ. And I like that very much.

Dust, thank you for sharing those insights. I'm with you, I want nothing more than to live my life in such a way that God and my loved ones are pleased, abundantly pleased.

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

I hope that ... you continue to participate in the discussion board on this and other topics.

You seem to have a sincere spirit and I like that.

thunder
_________________
Submit to God in Christ

diver · Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject: Being a Christian

Hey all,

I'm the new guy here. Thought this was an interesting topic and would like to give my 2 cents. Recently, my family and I joined a nearby church here in Colorado Springs. It's a terrific and a fairlyl new church (6 months old), but growing rapidly, ~ 1000 strong). It's great to be part of a new church because you can get involved and be part of it from the get go. My wife and two teenagers really love it and look forward to going a couple of times a week.

Anyway, I was baptized a couple of weeks ago at our church. A total of 46 got baptized on the same day. I was saved more than 23 years ago, but got involved in a church that wasn't big on water baptism shortly after being saved. So, I think I may have set a record between salvation and baptism. I know the subject here is not baptism, but it will make sense here in a bit. My baptism turned out to be truly one of the best days of my life. It was a significant emotional moment along with the other 45 folks that day. I also rededicated my life to the Lord Jesus that day.

For 23 years, I was an on again/off again Christian. During some of those years I was faithful to the Lord, but many years I was not. It was a struggle. After being baptized, I felt renewed and got a fresh start. The Lord showed me a couple of things that day.

You see, what I never "really" did during those 23 years was give my life wholeheartedly to God. I was guilty of partial surrender, which is really a sin. I know it is not easy to surrender all, but what a joy it truly is. I still fall short of course, but God has given me a clean heart and I again have that desire to really want to please Him. Because it's not about us, but all about Him.

Having spent those 23 years in the military (I just retired from the US Air Force in Sep of 04), surrender is not a word that was big in my vocabulary. But surrendering my life to the Lord was a wonderful thing. It has given me a new purpose in life.

God created us so we can worship, honor, and give glory to His name. And the way we do that is through obedience. Surrender and obedience go hand in hand. We are all called to obedience by surrendering our lives to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Not all will answer the call, but all have the freedom of will to choose.

Anyway, this is getting a bit long, but the nuts and bolts of my story is that as we obey God, we become pleasing in His sight and bring glory to His name. As we surrender our lives to Him, He is able to use us in a way that He intended for us to serve Him.

Like the bible says, we are one Body, but many members. There's something in every believer that God needs to accomplish, meaning we all have a unique calling or mission to further the kingdom of God. If we don't do our part, we grieve God and He has to look at others to accomplish that task. You see, God has no hands but our hands and He has no feet but our feet to walk among the almost dead. As we serve God and endeavor to live every moment for Him, there's nothing he won't do for us.

God Bless you all,
Diver

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

Hello Diver ... and welcome.

I hope that you consider the topics being discussed and share your thoughts. You can offer a subject too if you like.

Glad to hear you retired, that means you survived a life of US Military service to the people of America.

I thank you and look forward to knowing your position.

thunder
_________________
Submit to God in Christ

diver · Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject: Thank You

Thanks Thunder. I look forward to being part of this online discussion group. Never did anything like this before.
diver

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Welcome diver! I am JP one of your moderators. If you need anything or have questions just ask.

BTW, Colorado Springs is beautiful isn't it? Spent a couple of years at Ft Carson...
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

MoJo · Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:28 am Post subject:

Hello diver. I'm MoJo, another moderator. Welcome to the board. Very Happy

_________________
matt 6: 34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Reaching the perfection of Chirst is an ongoing process it seems, but nevertheless it is reachable:

Eph 4:11 Christ chose some of us to be apostles, prophets, missionaries, pastors, and teachers,
Eph 4:12 so that his people would learn to serve and his body would grow strong.
Eph 4:13 This will continue until we are united by our faith and by our understanding of the Son of God. Then we will be mature, just as Christ is, and we will be completely like him.
Eph 4:14 We must stop acting like children. We must not let deceitful people trick us by their false teachings, which are like winds that toss us around from place to place.
Eph 4:15 Love should always make us tell the truth. Then we will grow in every way and be more like Christ, the head
Eph 4:16 of the body. Christ holds it together and makes all of its parts work perfectly, as it grows and becomes strong because of love.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

Climbing Higher · Tadpole Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 17

Diver wrote: "I still fall short of course, but God has given me a clean heart and I again have that desire to really want to please Him. Because it's not about us, but all about Him."

I appreciate your honesty, Diver. But this is what I have been studying for awhile, this is what my question is all about. Is falling inevitable, a natural part of following Jesus? Do we become Christlike by gradually outgrowing our defects and weaknesses? by sinning less and less often until we cease sinning altogether?

Where in the Bible is sanctification described in terms of sinning and repenting? Yes, I realize Christians do fall. I am no exception. But my question has to do with the promises of God. I have not read in the Bible where God says sinning and repenting is inevitable. In fact, the promises posted at the beginning of this thread say exactly the opposite.

If resisting temptation is possible every once in awhile, then why isn't it possible every time we are tempted? Are there any excuses for why we sin sometimes? Are the promises of God at fault? Or, does the fault rest with us? If the fault rests with us, then can we take God at His word? That is, do we have the right to expect to be victorious everytime we are tempted?

Does anyone see what I mean?

Climbing Higher · Tadpole Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 17

JP, the passage you shared seems to be referring to corporate perfection. Or, did I misunderstand Paul's point? If it's talking about corporate perfection, then is it safe to assume that individual perfection is possible before corporate perfection happens?

Star · Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:

1John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, IN HIM (individually) verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1John 4:12 If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

I personally believe and in this I have hope that the Love of God can and will be individually realized in them, these then in turn are as examples and help others in love (known by their love) and build up ( in a labor of love) those needing to also come to the untity of the same faith. The goal of our faith is love of God and all men. I have yet to come to this place of perfect love. I do not love my enemies as I would pray to. But it does become easier and I have noticed the work of God in me in this BUT I'm not perfect in it, I trust Him to complete what He has began in me. That should be our confidence in Him. He can and will do as He promised and we will receive "The End" of our faith.

In Him

Star Very Happy

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Climb,

I do not view it is referring to corporate perfection, I view it as individual perfection. Paul's use of we and our, etc. indicates that he is speaking to and about the members of the body of Christ - in light of your question I do see the idea of corporate perfection, but I do not think that was the focus, just a by product of the perfection of individual Christians.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

I beat my self up ... very well and very consistently as I re-invented re-repentance befor God for re-making similar mistakes repetitively.

I finally made my peace for committing " sin " that does not lead to death, as John put it in 1 John, by recognizing that sin is our fallen " nature " at work and we can and must work on ending such behavior but, the Lord Jesus has been a man who understands the fallen nature of humanity.

Not that He condones " sin " that does not lead to death, but that He is aware of and is a formidable ally for helping us to recognize our errors then seek the root cause, so that we can eliminate the root cause.

" I have overcome the world," or ' I have conquered sin,' is Jesus notifying us that we can do nothing without His help as, He is the only person to have successfully completed a sinless human life and that only He has the keys to living a victorious life on this judged earth.

Have a repentant heart but seek the help of Christ to overcome sin rather than continuing to punish your self ( our self ) for something that we cannot end on our own. It will lead you to a much more personal walk with God in Christ, which is exactly His intent.

He desires to walk with His people and we with Him.

Seek Him ... not seek from Him. Jesus is the key.

thunder
_________________
Submit to God in Christ

Climbing Higher · Tadpole Joined: 31 Oct 2004 Posts: 17

Yeah, that's what I love about the gospel, it works, and works wonderfully - IF - I am abiding in Jesus. If I am not connected to Christ, the promises of God, the promises of victory and perfection, do not apply to me. Do the math, as they say, it's that simple, that cut and dry. To resist temptation, we must be connected to the one and only source of victory - Jesus. That's why they say, Jesus is the answer.

So, rather than beat myself over the head, or pat myself on the back, when I fall flat on my face, now I take my sorrow and shame and guilt to Jesus in contrition and repentance, and He forgives me and heals me and tells me to - Go, and sin no more, knowing that if I trust in Him and His promises I can be more than a conqueror. Too cool.

I no longer try to rationalize my failures, or excuse them, or say things like, I'm only human, nobody is perfect, no, now I accept responsibility for my sins, because I know and believe they are avoidable and unnecessary, that there is no temptation that God cannot empower me to recognize and resist unto His honor and glory. It is the truth that sets me free - so long as I am abiding in Jesus. "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." 1 John 3:6. That's what I love about the gospel, that's what I call - Good news!