1 Corinthians 15:20-28: An analysis

Dust · Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject:

apocatastasis, forgive me if I have offended you brother.

You provided analysis and commentary on 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, and then invited discussion. You presented one view of this passage.
I then provided similar analysis and commentary, which presented a different view.

Later, you invited me to let you know where you may be straying from objectivity. My intention, at that point, was to show where I felt you were in error. Im unable to determine the cause of the error, as far as, being intentional or unintentional.

There is a way that a man thinks is right but in the end leads to death. This proverb is profound! If a man thinks he is right, in his mind he is right, and may even fight to the death for what he believes is right. The actual spiritual reality of 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 is probably a bit different than any of the views expressed in this thread. We as Christians have to rely on the Lord our God for guidance. I have faith that the Lord will reveal his truth, but I also know, that as a man here on earth, I am not immune to deception.

Another aspect of all this is.......finding truth. Discussions like the one of this thread provides an excellent motivation in searching for the truth. I had not considered 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 so intently until you brought it to light. Thank you!

May His light shine down upon us!
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The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

apocatastasis · King of the Jungle Joined: 15 Feb 2004 Posts: 1827

Brother Dust,

Everything is well between us, for The Prince of Peace is our mediator.

You said:

Star · Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject:

Dust says

Star Im a bit confused about a couple of your statements.

The law is written on hearts already, Paul clearly said that those outside the covenant promise were walking in the love of God and they did not have The law.

You also say:

Where there is no law sin is not imputed.

In your first statement you seem to be saying; those who are inside the covenant, have the law written upon their hearts.

In your second statement you seem to be implying that where law exists so does the possibility of being found guilty of sin.

Is this correct?

Dust I’m actually leaving the forum and was not going to return but I wanted to answer you before I left.

Actually Dust in Romans Paul said concerning those at that time (Outside the old Covenant) had sown in their present reality had the law written on their hearts (The law of Love)

Those however under the law (Those who Jesus confronted) DID NOT have the love of God in them (the expression of love) Because they were UNDER THE LAW.

Now Just as Faith (Those without Law) seen in Romans shows and expresses itself in love. The law does quite the opposite it worketh Wrath.

Let me show it this way.

Faith worketh love in us (Gods love) against Love there is No law.

Law worketh wrath in us (Gods wrath) under law= Judged by law

Togue has the power of Life (above=Faith)) or Death (below=Law)

One walks in Judgement against His brother against Christs commands NOT to judge=LAW(Fruit DEATH and hate)

One walks in forgiveness toward His brother walking in His command=Faith (Fruit LIFE and LOVE)

So if those without the law in Romans showed that the righteous requirements of the law were written not on tables of stone but in hearts fulling and doing the things which love requires they will stand up and condemn those who had the law itself yet did not walk in the requirements of it (only the letter not the heart) Law made nothing perfect.

The outworkings of Two Trees each one known by its fruit (Love or Hate)

So know one can say “I love God and hate his brother from his heart, how could the love of God be in them”= Under the law.

In James it states that if you judge your brother your judging the law itself See?

Dust says,
One other thing.........In your first statement you said; those outside the covenant promise did not have the law......... Then you say; Where there is no law, sin is not imputed.

Star says,

EXACTLY. We are not under law. God remembers our sins no more. Unbelief in his grace and love blinds others believing in them their sins separates them from God. YES they do because they can only be aware of Sin if one is UNDER THE LAW. And being UNDER IT your judged by it. It condemns sin in Sinful Man. As Paul said it was NO LONGER HIM (Paul) But SIN (In Him) that is judged. Here is where UNBELIEF is realized=He’s under the law (which empowers sin). Paul was Alive apart from the Law (He said) but Sin sprang to life and He died through the commandment.

Sin is not imputed without the law only under it. Under the law means your seeking to be justified by it. So its NOT of faith who simply believes that God is their Righteousness (Seen as Christ=Garments in Tomb).

The people who get in the way of the message of the “GOOD NEWS” concerning what God has done on our behalf are those who took offense at the gift itself. The gift of eternal life (is not up in heaven some day) but to Know God (which is the definition of Eternal life… That they might know thee=Here and now. When we reject this free gift to know Him, you simply miss out on the greatest reward of your life. Because as to Abraham so to us in Faith HE is our shield and GREAT REWARD=Christ in us fully realized. The Old man is taken out of the way and all things made new simply by believing in the word that was already in them then and now. Grows beautifully in love and Grace. You can simply believe and be saved. But combine that with our HOPE of Glory (Him glorified in you) and Faith also is a Gift granted and Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things HOPED FOR.

We continually add and enjoy Sweet fellowship in Him.

Actually its not really arguable its Life and you know its in you. Its not about head knowledge but by Revelation. That’s by God only and between Him and one.

And finally Dust says

So together these two statements made by you, indicate one of three things:

#1 You believe those outside of the covenat promise will not be charged for their sins.

#2 You'er more confused than I.

#3 I've taken your statements out of context, and misinterpreted them.

A couple of other possibilities come to mind...........

Im an idiot.

You'er sending evil subliminal messages.

I dont know you tell me.

Star says

No your not an idiot. There does seem like a lot of paradoxes or things which need reconciling with… But that’s the best part the letter will kill you while your figuring it out upstairs then it all starts dawning inside you. It was just a matter of washing myself in His words which caused me to recognize the one already there. I was just in the way. We all work out our salvation first with fear and trembling but perfect love casts that out as we begin to see a Loving Father.

Yes… I know about all the other verses that He himself will make clear to you. We could argu till the sun goes down. I simply lift up His goodness and love. He teaches you, not me or men. You know which Tree is good by the fruit it bears against Love there is no law.

But I am leaving here so I will not be back carry on without me. I’ll particularly miss you dusty especially the kindness I’ve seen in you lately. God bless you hon and the Lord keep the eyes of your heart looking into the eyes of His Grace. (That’s what Noah found in His “eyes”).

Kisses and Hugs for Dusty

Its been a pleasure fellowshipping with you Very Happy

In Him

Star

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

Christ resides ... inside the obedient believer.

' And the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name ( which is JESUS ), He will remind you of all that I have said to you.' John 14:26

' The Holy Ghost, whom I will send from my Father, He will re-iterate all that I have already said.' John 15:26

' The Holy Ghost will speak again what I have tought you. He will teach you from the inside out what I shared with you from the outside in.' John 16:13

' I am praying for you.' John 17:9

" In him ( JESUS ) dwells all of the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and you are complete in Him." Colossians 2:9

Jesus is the all in all and is ruler over every principality, power, all levels of heaven, earth, hell, above and below all that exists ... and as obedient believers, we are in Him, He is in us and we are one together with Him in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

It can be very difficult to see this as fact while we are in the flesh. That is why we must be spiritually minded, so that we can acknowledge within our self, within our own human body, soull, mind and spirit that, all of the power of God is at work in us, thru us, around us, by us in Him.

People watched the man Jesus Christ perform miracle after miracle, healing after healing, feeding after feeding and never saw God. All they could see was a simple man. Inside that simple man was the one and only Almighty God. The King of kings.

The people never saw God in Christ and people do not see God in us. That fact is not a surprise. We can't see God either. No human ever has.

Through faith and obedient believing, like Jesus did, sin was conquered.

Today, nothing short of that spectacular feat is accomplished by God thru our faith and obedient belief in Him.

These things that you see me do, you shall also do. Even greater things than you see me do, you shall do. Because I am going to my Father and we will work thru you. Together we will win victory, after victory, after victory. Because in me, there is no defeat at all.

Today ( in the flesh ) we can't see the whole of all creation, but He has the whole world in His hands, and we are complete in Him.

Just believe!

thunder
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Submit to God in Christ