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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RIVERRRRRRRRRR!!! Hang onto my $5 Gem cause I'm not lacking in understanding? ROFL!!!
Ok I'm going to SMITE my sister!  It doesn't take $5 or $5000 in books THEY are NOT MY """GEM""" their just papers Testifying of the one I love who dwells in BOTH OF US (why do you think I love you so much?)
For your sense of HUMOR? (Ok I do love that too, I think the Spirit thinks your a pip lol!)  But ya know kiddo we can't understand SQUAT without the TRUE GEM INSIDE US guiding us. (Taking from what is His-word- and making it known to us) He keeps watch over knowledge 
They would just be words of a book of histoory, geneogies, times, dates, days, years, wars, laws etc etc etc. Words SEALED UP in a book that we would search thinking tha IN THEM we had eternal life. They Speak of Christ (Hidden) in Gods foreknowledge destined for our glory to search and find to our Glory.
So if we arent seeing Jesus.... WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT in scripture, you know?
I know you know that, thats why we flow together easily desiring and looking for those hidden treasures of Him. Then we sit down and FEAST UPON HIM. TASTE =SEE the Lord our God is GOOD FOOD for our soul Amen? The precious HIDDEN MANNA- Yum Yum Heavenly bread.
It doesn't get any better then HIM
Question always is (in ones heart) what do YOU SEEK??? Answer SHOULD BE- LORD WHERE DO YOU DWELL? He says FOLLOW ME the Spirit says COME AND SEE as does the bride. All in accord with each other.
Precious and Glorious He's AWESOME!!!
In Him
Starlaaa |
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metothezero
Tiger Cub
Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 791
Location: east texas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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River, explain your thinking. Even if one could subsitute the mem and kaf how would this advance your theory?
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The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike.
C. S. Lewis
Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. |
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River
Goldfish
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 57
Location: Tri-state Az/NV/CAL Area
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Let me see if I understand this; Regardless of how I study, what I read or do not read, who I fellowship with, who I speak to to learn from, or indeed, if I speak to no one and rely soley upon myself and my bible - ultimately the holy spirit will blow me in the right direction?
Am I understanding that correctly? |
Hello RevJP
It's nice to meet you.
Is this a trick question? I may be misunderstanding you-
>if I speak to no one and rely soley upon myself and my bible - ultimately the holy spirit will blow me in the right direction?
Obviously a Bible in hand doesn't guarantee anything, the reason for the mulitidenominations we presently see. But put a Bible in the hands of a hungry believer whose desire is to know God and learn seems to me like a perfect combination for experiencing the abundant life in Christ as well as moving in Way of the direction of truth and spiritual insight.
Do you agree?
Are you and Nobby brothers? You two look so much alike 
God bless-
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IH, River |
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River
Goldfish
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 57
Location: Tri-state Az/NV/CAL Area
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hey- you're all here!
PIP you say???!!! Whose a pip? You got me laughing! I needed that. You're too much!
I gotta go make my DH's lunch, he's getting ready for work- grave tonight  I'll see ya in a bit!
pip.... hahahah
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River
Goldfish
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 57
Location: Tri-state Az/NV/CAL Area
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| metothezero wrote: | | River, explain your thinking. Even if one could subsitute the mem and kaf how would this advance your theory? |
Theory? I don't have one Meto. I just remembered Star brought up the four elements and thought I share this with her. It really has nothing to do with this thread, but that's why I said I was just tossing it out there 
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IH, River |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| River wrote: | Obviously a Bible in hand doesn't guarantee anything, the reason for the mulitidenominations we presently see. But put a Bible in the hands of a hungry believer whose desire is to know God and learn seems to me like a perfect combination for experiencing the abundant life in Christ as well as moving in Way of the direction of truth and spiritual insight.
Do you agree? |
No, I do not necessarily agree. I understand that the Spirit is capable of and does provide insight and knowledge, but I also know that there is an enemy out there who knows us, the scripture, and the workings of the spirit all to well. The deciever is well practiced at convincing 'believers' that what they accept is Spirit inspired and true to the Gospel, but we know that it is not always the case.
Sola persona is a dangerous path to tread, individual study and interpretation without the benefit of community and fellowship is a recipe for disaster. We as a species were not created to be alone, and when we go it alone, we set ourselves up for all types of folly.
I know of two of us on this board that are proponents of self-study, and many of the things we beleive are based on the results of our individual studies. The difference is however, that our conclusions are continually checked against those of others, of mature christians whose guidance of the spirit is apparent. We discuss our conclusion with these individuals, we bounce these conclusion off of the existing doctrine, and hold them up to the light of communicty spiritual and scriptural discernment. If they pale in that light, then we re-think and re-study.
What alarms me is the apparent promotion of sola persona, sola scriptura by Star and you. I may be somewhat misled here but it seems to me that the underlying message is: "It is just me and my bible and the Spirit, I have had these things 'revealed' to me by the Spirit, and if you disagree with them then you must not be Spirit-led."
What I say is this: The body of Christ is not one person, it does not function, or exist, in just one person. It is a community, a family, and the scriptures speak the same truth to all individuals in that community. The balance is maintained because fellow believers are kept in line with the teachings of scripture by each other and the inspiration of the spirit to the individuals as a group. False doctrine abounds because the individual places more importance on what he/she believes is their 'special revelation' by the spirit than by the understanding of Christ's body as a whole.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Rev says
No, I do not necessarily agree.
Star says,
That’s ok I trust God to Teach that’s the New covenant.
Rev says
I understand that the Spirit is capable of and does provide insight and knowledge,
Star replies
You understand this good I agree with you.
Rev says,
but I also know that there is an enemy out there who knows us, the scripture, and the workings of the spirit all to well. The deciever is well practiced at convincing 'believers' that what they accept is Spirit inspired and true to the Gospel, but we know that it is not always the case.
Star replies,
I knew there was A “BUT” (lol!) but God does not give us a serpent for bread, I do not distrust God. We however give an account to the savior of our souls and if the enemy works its already written down in HOW he does this and its through the Law (Self Righteousness) We stand by Faith. God sets a table for us in the presence of our enemies (of ones own household) Heres the Testing and TRYING of our faith. To which one cannot moved from it if ones rooted and grounded in His love and Truth. You will however perceive in ones self the trodden down overflowing scourge and be shaken from the foundation you’ve built if it be on anything other then Christ Himself- THIS IS GOOD. We want all to fall that is not built on Him alone. Revealed by FIRE (Testing). All part of the job and His work of revealing His Son in us. And where is Satans Thone in Rev
Rev says
Sola persona is a dangerous path to tread, individual study and interpretation without the benefit of community and fellowship is a recipe for disaster. We as a species were not created to be alone, and when we go it alone, we set ourselves up for all types of folly.
Star replies,
Indeed we walk where angels fear to tread, and I think trusting in Christ alone is enough. He is WITH ME. I am not alone. No one who trusts in Him is alone. We give ourselves to the Lord enjoying our fellowship with Him and desire others to fellowship along with us IN HIM. God knits together not men. Jesus was forsaken, Paul was forsaken not one has gaurentee in Christ you will always have people praising what you say. Thats not what we seek really. I stand on what I believe and you and others on what they believe its pretty simple. God shakes it If it remains-Yahoo if it fails we suffer loss of those things we trusted in and move on until we get it right. No biggy it works FOR US not against us.
Lets go by your thinking for a second. I could say that the word is sown I me right? But if I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE WORD another (as you have said, Enemy) can take away the seed from my heart. So I will not put myself in that position of letting another take away something I have desired to understand but do not and let another take THAT away.
The Annointing is real it is in us and we have chosen to BELIEVE THAT. So if I am guilty of trusting God to Teach me I’m sure He will hold me accountable to WHAT?
Rev says
I know of two of us on this board that are proponents of self-study, and many of the things we beleive are based on the results of our individual studies. The difference is however, that our conclusions are continually checked against those of others, of mature christians whose guidance of the spirit is apparent. We discuss our conclusion with these individuals, we bounce these conclusion off of the existing doctrine, and hold them up to the light of communicty spiritual and scriptural discernment. If they pale in that light, then we re-think and re-study.
Star replies,
Those who measure themselves by themselves or compare themselves to others are not wise in doing this. Maturity is based not on Talk but of Power. One can know all mysteries and have not love and be nothing, Have all knowledge and have not love and be nothing. So just because we find agreement on “texts” does not mean we are walking in the Truth. Me and Rivers friendship in Christ is not based on Her beliefs but her Love and Glory in Christ alone. Its picked up by the Spirit way before doctrines are discussed because we agree only in Christ and share and hear each other and are simply blessed in the Joy of Christ.
Rev says,
What alarms me is the apparent promotion of sola persona, sola scriptura by Star and you. I may be somewhat misled here but it seems to me that the underlying message is: "It is just me and my bible and the Spirit, I have had these things 'revealed' to me by the Spirit, and if you disagree with them then you must not be Spirit-led."
Star replies,
Anyone is free to disagree, no one has to agree we are simply treasuring His words and agreeing in the beauties. The opposite is not true. There are some here that have called “me” false, wrong, deceived twisted etc. I have only noted but the FRUIT which is the evidence of the Spirit. The wrongful judgement of others based on fear rather then whats by faith.
You will find you will walk in agreement with those who believe like you, I also walk in agreement with River and Di. We all think differently and even receive great blessing through the diversity we share, nevertheless their faith and love is evidence enough for me to see they are Gods children not in word but in power.
Rev says,
What I say is this: The body of Christ is not one person, it does not function, or exist, in just one person.
Star replies
I Agree completely there is a Body and we rightly discern that body.
Rev
It is a community, a family, and the scriptures speak the same truth to all individuals in that community.
Star replies
This cannot be proven Rev and YOU know better, if you believe LIKE THEM you have a NAME FOR YOURSELF along with them IF NOT, your shown the door (which is funny that Christ is actually considered a DOOR) OUT. The scriptures do not read the same to all, but is CONTROLLED and Manipulated through FEAR to make others believe the same. Truth DIVIDES always has always will. Truth also unites as Love unites. God builds not us. You can’t make fit what will not fit.
Rev says
The balance is maintained because fellow believers are kept in line with the teachings of scripture by each other and the inspiration of the spirit to the individuals as a group.
Star replies
I did not understand this at all can you provide verses on these things Rev.
Rev says
False doctrine abounds because the individual places more importance on what he/she believes is their 'special revelation' by the spirit than by the understanding of Christ's body as a whole.
Star replies
False Doctrine abounds because men control and tell you “Thus Far NO FURTHER”…. I would place my soul on the altar for the revelation of Christ verses simple puffed up knowledge anytime. The Spirit available to All will take us much further then men allow. Simple trust in Christ is seen as a deception nowadays… thats sad. Shows us how far we've fallen doesn't it?
But I will always speak of His Faithfulness HE IS TRUE and all men liars as far as I can consider it, that I might be proved justified when I judge things. Him TRUE Alone. They turn away FROM HIM by doctrine, I turn from doctrines TO HIM. Theres a difference God judges righteously. I would say FOLLOW CHRIST and Trust Him, yet you think that’s being kinda deceptive and are saying this is a dangerous way, I would rather call it the NARROW WAY. Its not the way traveled by many but its proven to bless my socks off. I’m not exchanging the Truth in Christ for a Lie. I know what I have and I bask in it. Just rejoicing in the salvation of my soul beholding the one I love. Trying to Enjoy Him with River, were having a glorious time here. But thats why I wanted our little private room so it is left undisturbed (though I know its open to all mods eyes). The wet blanket is not thrown on the fire of it
In Him
Star |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Okay, no offense Star but I could understand very little of what you wrote, but I did get the gist of it; let me paraphrase it to clarify my understanding.
You are in essence saying:
That you do not believe God will allow satan to decieve us, that an individual with the bible and the total reliance on himself and God for understanding is protected by God and cannot or will not be led astray or misinterpret scripture.
| Quote: | | Indeed we walk where angels fear to tread, and I think trusting in Christ alone is enough. He is WITH ME. I am not alone. No one who trusts in Him is alone. We give ourselves to the Lord enjoying our fellowship with Him and desire others to fellowship along with us IN HIM. God knits together not men. |
Rom 12:4 In this way we are like the various parts of a human body. Each part gets its meaning from the body as a whole, not the other way around.
Rom 12:5 The body we're talking about is Christ's body of chosen people. Each of us finds our meaning and function as a part of his body. But as a chopped-off finger or cut-off toe we wouldn't amount to much, would we? So since we find ourselves fashioned into all these excellently formed and marvelously functioning parts in Christ's body,
If you would like I could post a plethora of passages which talk about community, the body of Christ, the fact that it is not good for man to be alone, to follow the oral traditions of the church, etc, etc, etc. But that is not the true point, is it? You are a student of the Word, you must understand the importance of fellowship, of the community of ideeas in the body of Christ - yet you appear to dismiss that concept, why is that?
The Christian life can be viewed as a wheel, its hub is God and it has four supporting spokes: Prayer, Study, worship, fellowship. No one spoke is more or less important than the other, because the wheel cannot turn properly unless all four spokes are in place and strong.
To deny fellowship is to deny the effective working of a Christ-like life. Fellowship provides companionship, exchange of ideas, it allows us to teach and learn, it allows us to be filled with the God's spirit ("where two or more are gathered in My name, there I will be among them....")
One other point: All scripture is usefule for teaching, guiding, rebuke...
You appear to promote the idea that if someone does not agree with you, or debates your position scripturally that they are not showing love. You said:
| Quote: | | One can know all mysteries and have not love and be nothing, Have all knowledge and have not love and be nothing. So just because we find agreement on “texts” does not mean we are walking in the Truth. |
I agree 100% - 1 Corinthians tells us:
1Co 13:1 If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate.
1Co 13:2 If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing.
1Co 13:3 If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love.
Yet we cannot deny that the converse is equally true - speaking in love, does not equal speaking in truth.
| Quote: | | There are some here that have called “me” false, wrong, deceived twisted etc. I have only noted but the FRUIT which is the evidence of the Spirit. The wrongful judgement of others based on fear rather then whats by faith. |
As Christians, we are to love one another, part of that love is guidance, if one goes astray we guide them back. Part of guidance is sometimes rebuke. If it is scriptural, if it is done in the spirit of the Lord, and if it does to the edification of the body and the truth of the Gospel, then it is good, if sometimes a little harsh on one's sentiments.
Ultimately you should realize than on these boards, if you espouse false doctrine, you will be called on it rather quickly, and given the anonymous mode of communicating, sometimes a little more harshly than should happen in the body of christ. But then again, this is not Christ's body, this is an electronic medium where people who have an interest in the Bible gather to discuss. There is no requirement here to be a Christian, and it is folly to come in with the assumption that all here are christians.
| Quote: |
JP said:
It is a community, a family, and the scriptures speak the same truth to all individuals in that community.
Star replied:
This cannot be proven Rev and YOU know better, if you believe LIKE THEM you have a NAME FOR YOURSELF along with them IF NOT, your shown the door (which is funny that Christ is actually considered a DOOR) OUT. The scriptures do not read the same to all, but is CONTROLLED and Manipulated through FEAR to make others believe the same. Truth DIVIDES always has always will. Truth also unites as Love unites. God builds not us. You can’t make fit what will not fit |
So you are saying that the Holy Spirit does not give the same interpretation of scripture to all indwelt Christians? You are telling me that each individual christian will recieve different meanings from the same scritpure? and that they all will be the truth?
Jesus said: I am the Way, the Truth, the Life, no man comes to the Father but through Me.
How many ways can that be interpreted? If I told you the Spirit has shown me that this verse means that Jesus was telling me that I am the way, etc. would you accept that as the truth of His Word?
Additionally, you gave me reason to believe that you have had a bad experience with church, I wonder at this, and I wonder if you may have let that experience lead you into a quaqmire that has locked you into a self-defeating cycle of spiritual starvation.
I also said: The balance is maintained because fellow believers are kept in line with the teachings of scripture by each other and the inspiration of the spirit to the individuals as a group.
To which you indicated a failure to understand. It is simple: As a community, we discuss our truths from scripture, we come to agreement that a passage means what it means, if one comes in with a radical meaning, we study that through the whole of scripture to see if it agrees or disagrees with everything else - one person cannot do this alone as we all have our own particular gifts and knowledge. you know verses that i do not, so the two of us together know twice as much scripture as one of us does.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Rev says,
Okay, no offense Star but I could understand very little of what you wrote
Star replies
That’s ok we all don’t understand each other at some point
You are in essence saying:
That you do not believe God will allow satan to decieve us, that an individual with the bible and the total reliance on himself and God for understanding is protected by God and cannot or will not be led astray or misinterpret scripture.
Star replies
That each individual comes to CHRIST ALONE believing HE is able to Teach. HE NOT others is the Narrow way. He is the HEAD. Those who believe that The Lord is their Righteousness and Teacher and Lord will never be led astray... thats exactly what I'm saying
Rev says
Rom 12:4 In this way we are like the various parts of a human body. Each part gets its meaning from the body as a whole, not the other way around.
Rom 12:5 The body we're talking about is Christ's body of chosen people. Each of us finds our meaning and function as a part of his body. But as a chopped-off finger or cut-off toe we wouldn't amount to much, would we? So since we find ourselves fashioned into all these excellently formed and marvelously functioning parts in Christ's body,
If you would like I could post a plethora of passages which talk about community, the body of Christ, the fact that it is not good for man to be alone, to follow the oral traditions of the church, etc, etc, etc. But that is not the true point, is it? You are a student of the Word, you must understand the importance of fellowship, of the community of ideeas in the body of Christ - yet you appear to dismiss this why?
Star replies,
You must only print DIRECT PASSAGES NOT your interpretation on them. Each body part AS CONNECTED TO THE HEAD. The Communion of the saints rejoice together in the blessing they receive THROUGH being CONNECTED TO HIM not men. There is NO communion or freedom of movement of each body part if they are seated on a pew giving discourses through MAN. That kind of set up was the OLD covenant. Were in the NEW. God teaches US ALL. And YOU appear to dismiss this… WHY? I’m saying Christ alone and your saying the OLD WAY alone.
Why do you not think there are some with No Root or not abiding IN THE NOURISHING Sap OF THE VINE. Apart from Him you can do NOTHING.
You dont pick grapes from thornbushes. Trees are known by their fruit not "their leaves" (doctrines)
Rev says Rev says
The Christian life can be viewed as a wheel, its hub is God and it has four supporting spokes: Prayer, Study, worship, fellowship. No one spoke is more or less important than the other, because the wheel cannot turn properly unless all four spokes are in place and strong.
Star says (Using Rev argument)
AGREED but how does one get strong? Apart from HIM? No way one must be connected TO HIM. Prayer is not something done before men…we live in unceasing prayer which is our communication with Him in us. Not a public show of it. Study… Absolutely each one seeks for various reasons this is personal. The Spirit leads us individually. Worship? This is in Spirit and in Truth NOT here nor there for such the Father seeks. Fellowship Absolutely but not on a pew bench this is unnatural and I believe hinders True fellowship.
Rev says
To deny fellowship is to deny the effective working of a Christ-like life. Fellowship provides companionship, exchange of ideas, it allows us to teach and learn, it allows us to be filled with the God's spirit ("where two or more are gathered in My name, there I will be among them....")
Star replies
ABSOLUTELY but not the way I see the church doing it. I go with the TWO OR THREE gathered in His Name… simply the walking down the road (casually) discussion the one we love, wondering about things before the Lord on EQUAL FOOTING not one man above the other.
Rev says,
One other point: All scripture is usefule for teaching, guiding, rebuke...
Star replies,
AGREED.Good thing we all have the scriptures and the Holy Spirit who through them teaches us, guides us and rebukes us.
Rev says
You appear to promote the idea that if someone does not agree with you, or debates your position scripturally that they are not showing love. You said:
Star replies,
On the contrary I feel the opposite is true. I have said over and over more then ten times that its all in How they read to each one. That the Spirit teaches. Confirming the New Covenant over and over speaking of Jesus alone. How do you see me here believing that some don’t show love except for the obvious lack of fruit (which is evidence of the Spirit) if one becomes slanderous, scornful which is obvious before all on “certain posts”
Rev says,
As Christians, we are to love one another, part of that love is guidance, if one goes astray we guide them back. Part of guidance is sometimes rebuke. If it is scriptural, if it is done in the spirit of the Lord, and if it does to the edification of the body and the truth of the Gospel, then it is good, if sometimes a little harsh on one's sentiments.
Star replies,
Yes we are to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. Yes rebuke when “scriptural” if done in Love and in edification.
Rev says
Ultimately you should realize than on these boards, if you espouse false doctrine, you will be called on it rather quickly, and given the anonymous mode of communicating, sometimes a little more harshly than should happen in the body of christ. But then again, this is not Christ's body, this is an electronic mediumwhere people who have an interest in the Bible gather to discuss. There is no requirement here to be a Christian, and it is folly to come in with the assumption that all here are christians.
Star replies,
I have no such assumption at all then all are Christians walking by the Spirit of God. Yes I understand that all do not know Christ in them yet. But if they trust Him they will. Walking by the Spirit will not be popular.
Rev says,
So you are saying that the Holy Spirit does not give the same interpretation of scripture to all indwelt Christians? You are telling me that each individual christian will recieve different meanings from the same scritpure? and that they all will be the truth?
Star replies,
I’m saying we can only receive what we are able to from His Teaching us. Obviously in scripture there are Carnal Christians drinking milk which is wonderful, but it’s a scriptural fact that they cannot receive nor are ready to receive spiritual meat. Theres a growth process involved without a doubt and I honor that. It’s a beautiful process actually. The word of the lord has not been revealed yet in them. When it finally IS theres a jumping out of ones skin! The Holy Spirit Speaks of JESUS ALONE and the faith that is in them.
I cannot believe you cannot see the OBVIOUS truth of the MANY differing interpretations that has to cause ONE TO WONDER whether anyone is listening to the Spirit. In my estimation it is good to seek the Lord myself because I KNOW who I seek and I trust in Him completely. You and anyother person are free to make the same claim I know others by their fruit and that’s how we are to know them by. We have JOY HOPE PEACE. But none of that seemed evident to me while going t church. They taught about everything BUT all in the name of “Christian issues” but Christ was not being lifted up in that enviroment. I simply felt it was not for me. I did not want an issue oriented life I wanted LIFE ITSELF and to know God.
Rev says
Jesus said: I am the Way, the Truth, the Life, no man comes to the Father but through Me.
Star replies
AMEN YES!! YES!! YES!!! He HIMSELF IS THE TRUTH Everyone who comes TO HIM He is completely able to save. WE AGREE FINALLY!
Rev says
How many ways can that be interpreted?
Stars replies,
ONLY ONE, HE is what the scriptures testify of both in fulfillment of the law and Him established in US who believe. Established IN US that believe. He thus leads us.
Rev says,
If I told you the Spirit has shown me that this verse means that Jesus was telling me that I am the way, etc. would you accept that as the truth of His Word?
Star replies
If you wanted ME to Follow YOU I’d say no. But as Christ we once regarded according to the flesh (as we all do at one point) and do so no longer but walk led by the Spirit of the One who is IN YOU then He can (with us and in us) LEAD US SINGULARLY. As Jesus walked in oneness with the Father we also come to a place of walking AS HE WALKED.
Rev says,
Additionally, you gave me reason to believe that you have had a bad experience with church, I wonder at this, and I wonder if you may have let that experience lead you into a quaqmire that has locked you into a self-defeating cycle of spiritual starvation.
Star replies
In truth this gives you reason to JUDGE ME (lets take of the mask here) There was INDEED A FAMINE (I agree with you 100%) the problem was it was a FAMINE of HEARING THE WORD OF GOD IN THE CHURCH.
But now I do not think it self defeating (as you seem to see it) to receive the Hidden manna of God in Christ. I see it as EMPOWERING actually. I left a FORM OF GODLINESS (ONLY an IMAGE) Set up to be worshipped as God which DENIES the POWER of Christ Himself. The falling away has already happened (From the Faith and Grace and Power of God).
Rev says,
I also said: The balance is maintained because fellow believers are kept in line with the teachings of scripture by each other and the inspiration of the spirit to the individuals as a group.
Star replies,
I have the scriptures and the Holy Spirit, EVERYONE has access to Him. But YOU mean to say that one can more easily be CONTROLLED and MANIPULATED in that enviroment which ofcouse I personally see.
Rev says,
To which you indicated a failure to understand.
Star says,
I have not failed to understand thanks to the Lord
Rev says,
It is simple: As a community, we discuss our truths from scripture, we come to agreement that a passage means what it means, if one comes in with a radical meaning, we study that through the whole of scripture to see if it agrees or disagrees with everything else - one person cannot do this alone as we all have our own particular gifts and knowledge. you know verses that i do not, so the two of us together know twice as much scripture as one of us does.
Star says,
It is Simple and I do commune with the rightly discern body and we together are in agreement with each other in Christ. We discuss and glory in these treasures. I just do this on the internet looking for in whose heart abideth Wisdom. Therfore I’m not just stuck with the place down the street but where ever I smell the sweet fragrance of His life in them I come a running. We not not be present in body but without a doubt we are united in Spirit for certain.
All these things I do I just do them without the walls and a pew bench. I find it liberating and I find movement much easier, fellowship powerful actually I find it hard to tear myself from those in Christ because their JOY is abundant and Love evident and Peace assuring. Those in Him Nourish the Soul in Christ, but religion harms it traps it and confines it, judges it etc. Its seen to me as something that tears down rather then builds up.
So I understand and know fellowship with God. I’m not crying that I do not, nor do I look for the assurance I already have. Or the Love Peace and Joy I have in Him. I’m hoping others will find this in themselves and for themselves in perfect reliance on HIM only.
In Him
Star |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Firstly, I speak of community and fellowship, and you continually refer to sitting on a pew... I think you do not completely understand what fellowship and community is and what it can be.
You continue to promote self-reliance and claim reliance on Christ, yet you have no true way to know if you believe the Spirit is teaching you is true or erroneous, you have no checks and balances. It is apparent by your assertions that you have divine knowledge, that you do not fully consider what other indwelt christians tell you about your 'understanding' of scripture.
You are on a dangerous road, not a narrow and rocky one walked by the few who commune with Christ, but a narrow and rocky one with a path lit by God or satan, who's presence you are unable to recognize.
You cannot be a Christian alone, God did not intend for us to be alone. He did not tell us nor intend for us to walk this path without companionship and His Word tells us quite clearly that we are to be in fellowship, we are to work, study and pray together - not only alone.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about that RevJP. You need to argue from scripture not from your opinions. I see an excellent example of men building a Tower to Reach the HEAVENS (thinking they were building for God) using Brick for STONE=Christ. Heres an excellent example of COMMUNITY where they were the builders REJECTING THE STONE (Himself). That doesn't fly. None of your assertions fly. Satan has His Seat in Revelation in a Synagauge (a place of gathering). So worshipping in Spirit and Truth is what Jesus says not me. He neither indicated a place to do that now did He?
If BROAD is the way to destruction what way do MOST PEOPLE TAKE? Narrow way is CHRIST ALONE. I only Trust Him
Your assertions are not based on scripture and YOUR A REV?
You do not know me or my freinds in Christ well enough to assert any of these judgements and you also should not judge (Lords command remember Him?)
Makes me wonder No offense but if you dont speak according to His word how can you have light in you? If God says the opposite.
You can do better... pick up your sword and USE it. or Beat it into a plowshare.
In Him
Star |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Star wrote: | | I don't know about that RevJP. You need to argue from scripture not from your opinions. |
So you see no evidence of, nor admonishments to gather together and worship together in scripture? You see nothing that speaks of the body of Christ as many parts working together? You don't see evidence in scripture where Jesus Himself gathered together a small group with whom He traveled with, taught with, prayed with, fellowshipped with?
You say I need to argue from scripture and not my opinions. Everything I have posted about community, fellowship, and corporate worship is from scripture, or are you just blind to that fact? or perhaps your personal interpretation of the scriptures lead you to believe every reference to gathering or together means the individual and Christ alone?
| Quote: | | If BROAD is the way to destruction what way do MOST PEOPLE TAKE? Narrow way is CHRIST ALONE. I only Trust Him |
I think you need to re-read that passage. You seem to have added a bit to it to suit your lone ranger spirituality.
| Quote: | | Your assertions are not based on scripture and YOUR A REV? |
You seem to be the only one who has claimed to have read a bible that would assert that my assertions regarding fellowship and community and togetherness are not based on scripture.
I also notice you used my screen name as a casual insult. Your assumptions of others lead you down a path that is best not traveled by those who claim to be followers of Christ.
| Quote: | | You do not know me or my freinds in Christ well enough to assert any of these judgements and you also should not judge (Lords command remember Him?) |
I have made no judgements, nor have I made any comments regarding friends of yours. From all I have gathered in your posts you do not have friends that I know of, if you gather with a group of friends to pray, study and worship, then GOOD FOR YOU! However, you have made no claims as such, nor have you indicated that you do so. So please, do not accuse me of doing something I have not done.
| Quote: | | Makes me wonder No offense but if you dont speak according to His word how can you have light in you? If God says the opposite. |
This makes me wonder. No offense, but if you do not know enough of scripture to recognize that what I have been writing is from scripture how then can you question whether I have the light of God or not? How can you say God says the opposite?
Additionally, I have posted chapter and verse on some scripture supporting what I have posted, you seem to have ignored or dismissed that altogether. I just wanted to point out that indeed, I am speaking from scripture, and that I have offered to post more references if you wanted them. Apparently you only want to deny and ignore scripture which supports a concept you seem to personally despise.
I noticed in another post you took offense when meto asked for references. You told him to look up the verses himself using keywords and such. Try it with fellowship, community, together, any keyword which would lead you to passages that discuss the concept. Read the scripture and rethink your ideas about going it alone.
Do not deny the scriptural veracity of what someone says if you cannot deny it scripturally.
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Rev says
So you see no evidence of, nor admonishments to gather together and worship together in scripture? You see nothing that speaks of the body of Christ as many parts working together? You don't see evidence in scripture where Jesus Himself gathered together a small group with whom He traveled with, taught with, prayed with, fellowshipped with?
Star replies
I see evidence that Jesus did hang out with his disciples but he did not hang out with Pharisees. I do not see a command do you? I see we are admonished. My Husband says no. I accept that and I submit willingly given I enjoy Him much better because its funny how an unbelievers love feels better then that which I have found in religious institutions claiming they love you but you cannot at all sense it.
Rev says
You say I need to argue from scripture and not my opinions. Everything I have posted about community, fellowship, and corporate worship is from scripture, or are you just blind to that fact? or perhaps your personal interpretation of the scriptures lead you to believe every reference to gathering or together means the individual and Christ alone?
Star replies
Yes for corperate worship HAVE FUN! God bless ya. Its seems to work for you. Don't let me stop you. But I don't worship corperately but individually and with who I feel drawn to in Him. I'm not going to fellowship with anyone who claims to know God and hates me. I think not.
Rev says
You seem to be the only one who has claimed to have read a bible that would assert that my assertions regarding fellowship and community and togetherness are not based on scripture.
Star replies,
That may be how you perceive it. Corporate worship is not a part of my life but it’s a part of yours so you need to work within the confines of that not me. I’m where the two or three are gathered. Is what your showing about this “togetherness” the thing I’m suppose to desire? Because I don’t want that. Its not sweet fellowship but bitterness is all I have seen and tasted of it.
Rev says
I also notice you used my screen name as a casual insult. Your assumptions of others lead you down a path that is best not traveled by those who claim to be followers of Christ.
Star replies,
Well Jesus said the same to the effect, to Isreals teacher. He said and “you’re a teacher and don’t know this?” I don’t think Jesus was insulting him was he?
I believe Christ is the Narrow way. I see no evidence of Him in many of the hearts who claim His name. That’s the truth as I see it.
Rev says
This makes me wonder. No offense, but if you do not know enough of scripture to recognize that what I have been writing is from scripture how then can you question whether I have the light of God or not? How can you say God says the opposite?
Additionally, I have posted chapter and verse on some scripture supporting what I have posted, you seem to have ignored or dismissed that altogether. I just wanted to point out that indeed, I am speaking from scripture, and that I have offered to post more references if you wanted them. Apparently you only want to deny and ignore scripture which supports a concept you seem to personally despise.
I noticed in another post you took offense when meto asked for references. You told him to look up the verses himself using keywords and such. Try it with fellowship, community, together, any keyword which would lead you to passages that discuss the concept. Read the scripture and rethink your ideas about going it alone.
Do not deny the scriptural veracity of what someone says if you cannot deny it scripturally.
Rev
I took no offense to Meto theres were just so many verses to post. Half an hour to find numbers. I then changed my mind with a second thought and showed where I got them providing chapter verse (Trying). Thereafter showing How I see these spiritual, you give your opinion that its literal and I explain to you that just because its literal doesn’t void the Spiritual truth of them. I gave you a verse which shows Jesus words are Spirit and Truth. Then I made a joke concerning taking it literally saying Okay (we disagree here-its ok) You keep your literal earthen moutain and I’ll keep what I see as a Spiritual concerning the Mountain. I backed off completely making a joke to make of disagreeing at all. I basically you don’t need to my view (I simply see it this way) but confirms faith… no biggy. THEN You began to implying I sound like the Satan. You know I can begin why Jesus said, “John came neither eating or drinking and and they thought of something derogatory to say (I forget) but Christ came eating and drinking and No one is pleased. You give verses (after I knew my heart its really useless to do it… look where it got me! Now using scripture I’m implied of Satan. Go figure- (throwing up hands) You cant win. This is not the kind of fellowship I want. I simply the fact that when Paul or anyone shares before you bite into is to look into it. Paul say the bereans we of more noble character then the thesolians because THEY SEARCHED to SEE what Paul was saying was true.
So me being a little beat am not too excited about looking up verses because they melt together for me. I’ve looked up each tiny detail of what I was sharing and can be seen using a barrage of scripture not even allowable on each thread.
They are in my heart I never go to numbers for references but the truth as I have understood from my study of them. Besides all this who really cares? You can have ALL knowledge and KNOW All Mysteries… Yes! You can know it perfectly well yet have not LOVE and be NOTHING at all. All the rightness about everything in scripture means nothing without Love. If that’s not there and the fruit of Joy peace and Love. Whats it worth?
Its even possible to give your body to the flames and everything you have but STILL have not love and be nothing.
So because I’m not impressed by these things but have only seen the lack of love in the church and the accusatory Spirit I feel best to sit home with a dry crust where there is peace then be in a house where there is feasting constant strife. I love online. I can always move to another discussion board. Getting the left foot of fellowship is not only seen in the church when you don’t agree with them but online as well. You can shut me down anytime you disagree with me. But I’ll live and move on.
In Him
Star |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm not going to fellowship with anyone who claims to know God and hates me. I think not |
where did this come from?
| Quote: | | Thereafter showing How I see these spiritual, you give your opinion that its literal and I explain to you that just because its literal doesn’t void the Spiritual truth of them. I gave you a verse which shows Jesus words are Spirit and Truth. Then I made a joke concerning taking it literally saying Okay (we disagree here-its ok) You keep your literal earthen moutain and I’ll keep what I see as a Spiritual concerning the Mountain. |
I think the point both meto and I were making is that it can be and is both literal and spiritual. No one has claimed that your allegorical interpretations are necessarily wrong. We have just pointed out that there is also truth in the literal and it has been my experience to notice that you tend to dismiss the literal and accept only the allegorical.
We both agree on the contents of 1 Corinthians 13, but can you agree that the converse is also true? That having love does not equate to being correct in knowledge?
| Quote: | | I love online. I can always move to another discussion board. Getting the left foot of fellowship is not only seen in the church when you don’t agree with them but online as well. You can shut me down anytime you disagree with me. But I’ll live and move on. |
I guess you could move on, no one has asked you to and no one here, particularly me would want you to. But you have to do what you feel right about.
To the best of my knowledge no one has given you 'the left foot' or has shut you down, unless you feel that disagreeing with you constitutes such.
So for the sake of peace I will not bother you anymore. I did not intend to offend you so severly by engaging you in discussion and I ask for your forgiveness for so engaging you.
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JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Star
King of the Jungle
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1765
Location: Just moved to south Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Rev
I clarified the point that you did not copy paste from the begining.
I said an EARTHEN MOUNTAIN (Go back and look) that is what my frame of reference was concerning.
I have also repeatedly in that same thread over and over again stated that just because its a SPIRITUAL MOUNT (Like Siani) which cannot be touched as Paul said. that it makes it no less real simply because of the fact that it was spiritual.
The whole thread started out to bless concerning faith and its all marred up and scarred over nothing. I continually share and have always shared Faith.
No one said you were going to kick me off, I was simply saying if you wanted to display the same action I've seen by those in the church over petty disagreeing you could certainly do that, I'm correct in this. As Moderator I'm sure there is no partiality or power struggles concerning your role. I don't ever think you'd do such a thing wrongly and I'm simply clarifying that you could very easily from your position.
In posting verses (I knew would get me no where) against my better judgement I complied and it just took off down hill from there.
I think the point of that post was "faith" not a mountain- forget any thoughts on Mt Siani I just wanted to bless someone in what blessed me. that I'll keep for myself.
In posting to River I was called to give an account to Meto from you. I wasnt talking to Meto- but to River. then you asked me what Zathuras what think- I dont know what Zath is thinking? Ask Him.
Then grilled about obedience and my husband(?)
Then I was sounding like Satan- but ok (?)
But as uplifting as our conversations are I wish we could stop, think we can? I'd think it would be best. I would much rather post the beauties of Christ on the board then argue with you or anyone.
Lets just put it behind us like it never happened and start fresh ok? No hard feelings toward at all ok? Trying to be more edifying. That was my hearts intention on the board not to argue over the mountain- Who cares right?
Thanks
In Him
Star |
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