Why Do You Believe That God Did Not Create Gay Persons?

summertime · Rattlesnake Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 447

Many people believe that God would not create homosexual persons. Why not? Why is creation of such persons so hard to believe?

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7003 Location: USA

Because we, as a people today, are not the product of God's original creation. We are a corrupted form of what He intended, due to the fall of Adam. Since the fall all of nature has been corrupted, disordered, and God gave us up to that corruption until such time as we can return to Him and be regenerated to our intended state.

So, what we call natural today is not the original 'image of God' creation. It is a warped, twisted, disordered, version of that image.

See these links to read a sermon by John Piper regarding this subject:

The Other Dark Exchange: Homosexuality
http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/98/101198.html

The Other Dark Exchange: Homosexuality, Part 2
http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/98/101898.html
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summertime · Rattlesnake Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 447

Nobby

Hi summertime,
What RevJP is telling you is that God created Man & woman perfict. (no sin) Homosexuality is a product of man & womans sin.
The had free will & they made some bad mistakes.
Even tho they were warned again it.
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summertime · Rattlesnake Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 447

larryjf · Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:05 am Post subject:

Holywind · Goldfish Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 61

Hi Summertime Smile

God DID create gay people, he just did not create the people GAY! Smile

He took the "woman" out of the man and made "her" a separate entity. He didn't want men to be responding like women, he wants women to respond like women. Very Happy

Men and Women are TWO (2) DISTINCT PERSONALITIES, who approach life from totallyDIFFERENT perspective. EACH IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT but each needs the freedom or liberty to respond to situations from their perspective. Very Happy

BOTH ARE VALID PERSPECTIVES that work in HARMONY when they FOCUS on the Heavenly Father's will. Very Happy

When God TOOK THE WOMAN OUT OF THE MAN, He took the FEMALE TRAITS out of the MALE! He didn't create a MAN to go back to another MAN and say "Let me play the WOMAN in your life!!" Rolling Eyes

Having come from that VILE background, myself, I will state AGAIN for all the world to see and hear. HOMOSEXUALITY is about ONE THING ONLY, THE DESIRE TO HAVE SEX WITH A PERSON OF THE SAME GENDER!!! IT'S VILE AND PERVERSE. #evil

MEN with MEN, having a great time with each other, with not SEX involved is called FRIENDSHIP. The same goes for a WOMAN with WOMAN relationship.

When one of the MEN decide to take on the WOMANS ROLL in a relationship, it's CONFUSION!!!! #evil

God is NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION!!!

God gives us a FREE - WILL. He tells us the CONSEQUENCES of following on in ANY PERVERSION is eternity in HELL Crying or Very sad

If it's more important to give into the LUST of our FLESH for the 25,000 days (or LESS) we are given to live on this earth, than it is to spend 150,000,000 days (if only it were that brief) in HELL, then we can have at it. Embarassed

I am so--o-o-o--o-o- THANKFUL the Lord SET ME FREE FROM IT over 25 years ago!!! YOU CAN BE FREE TOO!!! Laughing

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larryjf · Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:13 am Post subject:

Holywind,

I am so glad to hear of the freedom you have been given in Christ.
He is a yoke-breaker. Our God sets us free from slavery to sin.

I think one of the issues is that people are blind to the spiritual reality of matters. They don't realize they are being held captive by sin because they are blind to it. It reminds me of Elijah when he asked God to strike the military men blind, then he lead them willingly to the king of Israel.

Let's pray that eyes will be open to the spiritual realities that are all around us.

Praise God for setting His people free!

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7003 Location: USA

I hate to be nitpicky, but would it be possible to use the variety of fonts and font attributes a little more sparingly? I cannot speak for everyone, but the posts with multitudes of different size fonts, colors, bolds, underlines, etc. are very difficult to read.
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summertime · Rattlesnake Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 447

summertime · Rattlesnake Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 447

STABYC · Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject:

I have always been taught that homosexuality is wrong and cannot find anything in the Bible to dispute that. I believe that it is a sin, but a sin no better or no worse that me telling a lie. So until I become sinless (never) I will try not to judge anyone else.

But I have always had this question: If homosexuality is a sin, why are there people so obviously homosexual? A close friend of mine in high school was a girl, but so obviously a boy from birth. She looked like a boy, acted like a boy, walked and talked like a boy with breasts. She did everything the boys did. It was not something she was taught, she had brothers and sisters, it was just the way she was. She went to church every week and was a Christian. She believed homosexuality was wrong. But after she became an adult, she stated that she was a lesbian and that there was nothing she could do about it as she had tried all her life to be "straight".

Then there are the babies that are born with both genitals, what about them? How do they know which sex they are until they get old enough to determine which sex attracts them? And what if the parents chose their sex while they were babies and it turns out they chose wrong?

I know that God does not make mistakes, so it seems that if he created these people as they are, how can it be a sin for them to be homosexual?

I have never had anyone give me an explanation that makes sense to me. Maybe you guys can help me?
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summertime · Rattlesnake Joined: 21 Aug 2003 Posts: 447

larryjf · Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject:

I may be wrong, but i think with a hermaprhodite you can tell what gender they are by their chromosomes. If they have X and Y chromosomes they are male, if they have X and X chromosomes they are female.

As to the idea of being gay from birth - that would be a hard one to prove. How can you tell if a 1 day old baby is gay?

I have heard some people who are more knowledgeable about this than me and here are some things they say:

Homosexual behavior does not have its primary origin in the biological make-up of some men or women. It is primarily a learned behavior.

The bible does not deal with biological versus social origins of homosexuality, it simply condemns the practice.

The diverse psychological components of masculinity and femininity (gender role identity) are learned.
In American culture, sex roles are most powerfully determined in the home, and at such a young age (usually the first few years), that the psychological identity of most homosexuals and heterosexuals is set before they know it.

I have seen quite a few cases myself where homosexuality was a direct result of sexual abuse.

I believe the gay rights movement itself is a demonic movement. These sinners have made their damaged sexuality the focal point of their life. They are enslaved to their distorted sexual drives. And where there is enslavement in a sin the demons are soon to enter in. Demons are attracted to sin, especially the sin of a Christian.

The members of the movement are still objects of God's love - and mine. But they are victims of a multidimensional spiritual warfare. They are enslaved to the lusts of the flesh.

They are controlled by the Devil. Sexual, rebellion, shame, self-hate, bitterness, and disease demons swarm in and around their movement, gleefully inspiring them to ever more flagrant and self-destructive vices.

"homosexuals can't change" is a lie that has permeated our society. It's accepted as a fact within many churches. But the heart of the gospel is the hope of new life for all who seek it, including homosexuals. And as Holywind and many others can testify, it is possible to change.

There is another problem within the church in regards to how it looks at homosexuality. In the eyes of many believers, homosexuals and child abusers are to be detested. This attitude delights Satan and his evil spirits. For years they have been telling damaged people who battle with homosexual problems that the church hates them and will not receive them. Many Christians have become Satan's allies in this regard, parroting Satan's lie that homosexuals are to be scorned and rejected.

Not all practicing homosexuals are demonized, but the demonic activity in the movement is very strong. And there are many individual homosexuals who are demonized, some severely.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7003 Location: USA

STABYC, please read the links I posted to the sermons by John Piper. I would love to rehash them for you, but I would like you, and Summertime, and Larry to read them firsthand, then go from there.

IMHO, too many church-folk, try to compartmentalize homosexuality so that it will sit better in their minds. It is easier to dismiss or condemn something if you believe it has a cause, or is a choice, or is by its nature sinful.

Being homosexual is not a sin, being born gay, finding out you were gay and denied it, yadda yadda yadda, is not the sin, nor is the state of being gay a sin anymore than the state of being human (which is to say we are all born in a state of sin regardless of who or what we are).

Activity is the sin, whether it be homosexual or hetrosexual. Summertime was right in this. But, homosexual activity is condemned scripturally without further qualification. A guy or girl sleeping around (fornication) is a sin, lust is a sin (by thought or condition of the heart) adultery is a sin, the difference with homosexuals is that there is not sanctification for marriage, consequently any sexual homosexual activity would be a sin, as it would all be considered fornication, or adultery, or some other form of sexual impurity.

Read the sermons....
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