Will only 144,000 people go to heaven?

Richard THrift · Newbie Alert Joined: 04 Aug 2004 Posts: 1 Location: UK

8) Hi this is my first post. I would like to point all JW and none JW forum users to www.bibledecoded.com to explain lots of topics which are being discussed here

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

Zathrus · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:44 pm Post subject:

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

The first death is implied by the phrase "second death." One will not not find the term "first death," but only "death" in Scripture. To understand the second death, one must understand the first or original, wouldn't you agree?

When I tried to describe death to a avid student of the Bible recently, based on Jesus account involving Lazarus and Eccl 9:5-10, he replied that death is "separation from God." Obviously he was confused, preventing him from truly grasping the marvelous promises guaranteed to God's obedient servants and the depth of his merciful justice. I concluded many others must be as well.

Zathrus · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:24 pm Post subject:

We are straying off the topic of this thread, but I'll say this: The term "second death" is only found in Revelation 20. The closest other mention of a second death is Jude's reference to false teachers as "twice dead and plucked up by the roots". Jude's reference was a metaphoric description of the spiritual state of people still very much in this life.

In Revelation 20, it sounds to me more like John is contrasting the "first resurrection" with the "second death". I've not yet read a commentary that addressed this in Revelation 20, and I myself don't know exactly what John was getting at there. But he clearly is contrasting these ideas of first/second, life/death.

I do know, the literalist interpretation of Rev 20 that premillenialists, including apocalyptic groups like the JW's and the SDA's adhere to is completely unsatisfactory in explaining the true meaning of the text of REv 20. And saying that a "first death" is implied by John using the expression "second death" also seems to miss the meaning of John's message in Rev 20.

There's a spiritual truth there that merely taking the words at their surface meaning will not reveal to us.

We should continue this discussion in a thread on Rev 20. Perhaps one entitled "Revelation 20: Does anyone REALLY understand it?"

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

Rev 20: 4-6: "And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years."

The ones 'resurrected first' are the "firstfruits" of 1 Cor 15:23 and the ones referred to in verse 4 as given the rulership based on their faithful coarse unto death (first death). (See Rev 2:10,11 and 3:21) The second resurrection would apply to anyone else brought back to life during the thousand years, when death has been brought to nothing, and the grave (Hades) is destroyed in the lake of fire (eternal destruction). (1 Cor 15:24-26; Rev 20:13,14) However, "the rest of the dead" do not come to life until after they pass the final test described at Rev 20:7-9. Those who Satan misleads after having been made perfect as Adam was during the original test will suffer the "second death," that is one resurrection per person -Goodnight Irene!

Some will "come out of the tribulation" (Rev 7:9,14) and "never die at all" (John 11:26). For these, this is a "resurrection" of sorts and thus will suffer the "second death" as will any righteous or unrighteous (those that never knew the good news) resurrected during the 1000 years if they fail the final test above.

Paul writes to those with a heavenly calling, firstfruits and rulers in God's Kingdom at Heb 11:39,40: "And yet all these, although they had witness borne to them through their faith, did not get the fulfillment of the promise, as God foresaw something better for us, in order that they might not be made perfect apart from us." Yes, these will reign with Christ to the blessing of the meek that will inherit the earth. (Psalm 37:11,29; Matt 5:3,5) The creation has long awaited the revealing of these sons (Rom 8:19-22) described prophetically at Dan 7:22,27.

Pick this apart as you review the cited verses. I anxiously await your comments and questions.

"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." (2 Cor 10:4-6)

Zathrus

frank, I started a thread on Rev 20. I'll post some responses there.

Those who wish to resume the discussion on the 144,000 on this thread, please continue on and pardon the interruption.

Enoch · Newbie Alert Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 2

the 144,000 are the jews that will be saved at the end

Enoch · Newbie Alert Joined: 07 Aug 2004 Posts: 2

refering to the last group to be saved. we at that time(the christians) will have already been caught up in the Rapture. i used to think the same thing that only 144,000 were going to heaven, but that's not how it will be.