John 10; 30 '' I And My Father Are One ''

Elijah22 · Little Guppy Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 33

According To Some Christian In John 10 ; 30 Of The King James Version Of The Bible Where It Says And I Quote '' I And My Father Are One , 'Does This Mean Jesus Is Saying He Is God ?
Some Will Answer '' Yes '' To This Question .
However , According To The English Translation Of The Bible , In John 5 18 , It Says That JesusWas Making Himself Equal With God , And John 10 ; 30 Is Used To Support This Mistranlation . However If You LQQK At A Translation Of The Same Verse . Only From The Original Aramic ( Hebrew ) , John 10 ; 30 Is Saying Jesus And God , His Father Are In Agreement Or In Harmony Of Mind , Or Concent Or Concurrence Of Opinons Or Wills .
John 10 ; 30
I And My Father Are Of One Accord .
The Peshitta Translation
From Aramic
According To The Webster's New Twentieth Century Dictionary Unabridged
Second Edition - Deluxe Color , On Page 12 , '' Accord '' Is Defined As , Accord , n ... 1 . Agreement ; Harmony Of Minds ; Consent Or Concurrence Of Opinions Or Wills .... 2 . Will ; Voluntary Or Spontaneous Motion ; Preceded My Own , Which Ties Into John 5 ; 30 Inwhich Jesus Says He Came Not To Do His Own '' Will '' , But The Will Of His Father ,
John 10; 30
I CAN OF MY OWN SELF DO NOTHING ; AS I HEAR , I JUDGE ; AND MY
JUDGEMENT ISJUST BECAUSE I SEEK NOT MINE OWN WILL BUT THE
WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME .
THUS IN JOHN 10; 30 JESUS IS SAYING HIS WILL IS THE SAME AS HIS FATHER NOT THAT HE IS PART OF A TRINITY OR THAT HE IS HIS FATHER ,

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

I would add that Jesus himself expressed that he and his Father were not one but two: "In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." (John 8:17,18)

Van · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:29 am Post subject:

Lets see, JW's do not believe in the trinity and therefore nullify Matthew 28:19. They do not believe Jesus is God and therefore nullify John 1:1/14.
There do not believe man has a spirit that departs the body upon death and goes either to Paradise or Hades where at least in some limited sense we have concious awareness, and therefore the JW's nullify Luke 16:19-31. One God in three persons, Father, Son and Helper is sound doctrine and is the inescapable revelation of the Bible.

franksinatra · Big Hamster Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 93

"But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." (Matt 12:28)

"But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you." (Luke 11:20)

Analyze the above parallel accounts. Do you see that God gave his power to Jesus to expel demons? Even the Egyptians recognized the powerful works of the one that prefigured Jesus as accomplished to the power or "the finger of God."

(Exodus 8:19) "Hence the magic-practicing priests said to Phar´aoh: “It is the finger of God!” But Phar´aoh’s heart continued to be obstinate, and he did not listen to them, just as Jehovah had spoken."

This is an example of how JW's come to their conclusions - reading the entire Bible and reasoning on the Scriptures. Thousands are finding out daily how enjoyable and freeing such can be.

Do you pray for God's spirit? The reader of hearts will supply to the honest-hearted!

MoJo · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:25 am Post subject:

The meaning of John 10:30 is answered very clearly by Jesus in John 17: 20, 21.

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

John 17: 20 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; [21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

If this scripture proves the trinity, it contradicts its own doctrine because then God is not three, but as many as believe on Jesus.

BTW, according to my concordance, the same Greek word for one is used in both places.

Very Happy

Van · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:00 pm Post subject:

The JW's hold to false doctrines clearly at odds with the Bible. I have mentioned three.

Mojo - Who is the Spirit of Christ? I say He is the Spirit of God which proves that Christ is God. Pretty simple really.

Think of it this way, if the shirt of Van is the shirt of Dad, then logically Van is Dad.

MoJo · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:47 pm Post subject:

Van wrote:

Van · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject:

One can only assume that the non-answer is in fact a statement that the Spirit of Christ is not the Spirit of God. This implied assertion is contrary to scripture.

Since the topic is that Jesus and the Father are one, meaning both are part of the trinity, and both are God, then my post is on topic. Scripture indicates that the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God are one and the same thing, which proves Christ is God. Pretty simple really.

MoJo · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject:

van wrote:

Van · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:18 am Post subject:

John 10:30 indicates that both the Father and Christ are God and the Spirit of Christ being the Spirit of God proves it. John 17:20-21 has nothing to do with the subject. John 17:20-21 showes Jesus praying for His disciples, that they will be indwelt and guided such that through their efforts the New Testament will accurately reflect God's revelation in Jesus, and believers would be saved by grace through faith and discipled such that His gospel which is the power of God to salvation would be spread to all nations.

MoJo · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:22 am Post subject:

John 17:[21]....... That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:............

IMO these scriptures speak for themselves. People can decide on their own what to make of it. Very Happy

Van · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject:

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, "I said you are gods?" If he [Asaph - Psalm 82:6] called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the Scriptures cannot be broken - what about the one whom the father set apart as his very own ans sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said "I am God's Son" Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe my miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I in the Father. Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp, John 10:34-39.

The "again" refers to verse 33 which says, "We are not stoning you [Jesus] for any of these [miracles] but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." Here we see that claiming to be God's Son equals claiming to be God. When Jesus said I and the Father are one, the folks picked up the stones because they understood Jesus to be claiming to be God, a blasphemy.