Understanding John 5:37

Van · Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 2:18 pm Post subject: Understanding John 5:37

It has been asserted that John 5:37 precludes using the voice of the Father in Matthew 3:17 as proof that the Father is a separate entity from the incarnate God the Son, and from the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Now the voice says, "This is my Son" which implies it is the Father speaking. The voice did not say, "This is the Son of God and His Father is well pleased." Since God is Spirit the production of the sound waves which carried the message in the physical world represents simply a manifestation of God the Father. But the passage certainly suggests the simultaneous existence of three separate entities, each having the qualities of personhood (will, intellect and emotion) as demonstrated in other passages.

When Jesus in John 5:37 says, "You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form" what was Jesus saying? Who is "You"? Everybody or is the statement confined to those standing in His audience? And what was He implying? That they had never heard God in an audible voice, or never listened to God period? Jesus says that the Father has borne witness of Jesus, so His point seems to be they had an opportunity to hear the Father's voice and see the Father's form. And who would that be? God the Son, who is the perfect representation of the Father. Jesus is saying his audience did not have God's word from scripture abiding in them.

As Augustine might have told them, if you only accept what you like from the word of God, and reject what you do not like from the word of God, it is not the word of God that you believe, but yourself.

Bridget · Rattlesnake Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 443

I simply do not believe the churchs idea of who and what Jesus was and is. If you wish to accept it, go right ahead, but please do not accuse me of skipping parts of scripture because I believe they're untrue. The church as far as I'm concerned has completely changed it's meaning and you buy it hook line and sinker. John 5:37 was an answer Jesus gave to Jews about work on the sabbath. The Jews claimed that Jesus was claiming to be equal to the Father. If nothing else the statement of Jesus here claims that he is God's son.
I solemnly assure you,
the Son cannot do anything by himself
he can do only what he sees the Father doing.
For whatever the Father does,
the Son does likewise.
For the Father loves the Son
and everything the Father does he shows him.

Try reading all the words in this discourse of Jesus. from 5:19 to47

Van · Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:39 pm Post subject:

Bridget, not to put too fine a point on it, but if memory serves, you are the lady that discounts John 1:1 because it is a prologue.

Nothing in the larger context of John 5:37 alters the message of the passage provided in my post. I read the entire passage starting at verse 5:18, because verse 19 says "therefore" and I needed to look back to see what the therefore was there for. Wink

And does verse 18 say the passage is only about Sabbath breaking? Nope. ...the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him (Jesus) because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself out to be God.