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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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 Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron wrote: | | To what do we test all things learned against? |
The human mind.
| Quote: | | What does Christ use in His temptation with the devil? |
Direct rejection via the utterance of "get thee behind me, Satan".
| Quote: | | What does 2 Timothy 3:16 mean to you? |
Considering it was written before the compilation of the Bible at Nicea in 325 CE, it could mean many things. To say scripture is 'divinely inspired' does not mean it should be taken literally.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| revmattchoo.com wrote: | | how did they become a mother or father? the only way is to get the parts necessary from the opposite sex. even if there is no relation between a male and female, the female still needs that necessary thing that can only be produced in men. also, if u have seen a pregnant man, i'd like to see a picture... |
What's the point? BTW there have been documentated cases of spontaneous pregnancies occurring in other species. It's only a matter of time before we figure out the means to do it too.
| Quote: | | so then, how can we trust in a God who's Word is full of possible fallicies? we cannot because we cannot know if what the Bible says is what it really says. so if that is to be true, then our faith in Christ is futile and we are still in our sins (or what we think is wrong), sending ourselves to a possible non-existent hell. |
Only to those of weak faith.
Do you believe God is omnipotent? If so then he is genocidal.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | Ron wrote: | | To what do we test all things learned against? |
The human mind. |
In view of your response, here is a verse in several translations you might meditate on.
Pro 3:5 With all your heart you must trust the LORD and not your own judgment. (CEV)
Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding. (MKJV)
Pro 3:5 Trust GOD from the bottom of your heart; don't try to figure out everything on your own. (The Message)
It is on God, not on yourself, that you are commanded to depend. He who trusts in his own heart is a fool.
We must-
1. Fix God's law, and his commandments, as our rule, by which we will in every thing be ruled and to which we will yield obedience.
2. We must acquaint ourselves with them; for we cannot be said to forget that which we never knew.
3. We must remember them so that they may be ready to us whenever we have occasion to use them.
4. Our wills and affections must be subject to them and must in every thing conform to them. Not only our heads, but our hearts, must keep God's commandments.
How is God's will and commandments revealed to us? Through His divinely inspired Word.
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron wrote: | | Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | Ron wrote: | | To what do we test all things learned against? |
The human mind. |
In view of your response, here is a verse in several translations you might meditate on.
Pro 3:5 With all your heart you must trust the LORD and not your own judgment. (CEV)
Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding. (MKJV)
Pro 3:5 Trust GOD from the bottom of your heart; don't try to figure out everything on your own. (The Message)
It is on God, not on yourself, that you are commanded to depend. He who trusts in his own heart is a fool.
We must-
1. Fix God's law, and his commandments, as our rule, by which we will in every thing be ruled and to which we will yield obedience.
2. We must acquaint ourselves with them; for we cannot be said to forget that which we never knew.
3. We must remember them so that they may be ready to us whenever we have occasion to use them.
4. Our wills and affections must be subject to them and must in every thing conform to them. Not only our heads, but our hearts, must keep God's commandments. |
There's something to be said for this viewpoint; I understand evangelicals/fundamentalists do not like the saying "God helps those who help themselves." Dave Burchett comments it's more likely God helps those who do not help themselves and I see his point.
OTOH it's not an action of mature faith to eschew common sense, either.
| Quote: | | How is God's will and commandments revealed to us? Through His divinely inspired Word. |
Perhaps, but this is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | I understand evangelicals/ fundamentalists do not like the saying "God helps those who help themselves." Dave Burchett comments it's more likely God helps those who do not help themselves and I see his point.
OTOH it's not an action of mature faith to eschew common sense, either. |
| Quote: | | How is God's will and commandments revealed to us? Through His divinely inspired Word. |
| DBB wrote: | | Perhaps, but this is irrelevant to the issue at hand. |
An intimate knowledge of Scripture is the starting point for an intimate knowledge of God.
Ignorance of God's Word is not bliss. Paul writes to the Corinthians and exclaims that "there are some who are ignorant of God - I say this to your shame" (1 Corinthians 15:34). Throughout Scripture, we find an imperative to know God and to know his Word. Time and time again, the writers of the New Testament ask, "Don't you know...?" (see Romans 3:3; 1 Corinthians 3:16; James 4:4).
The sad fact is that many Christians display a dismal ignorance of Scripture. Polls conducted in America showed that the most quoted verse from the Bible is: "God helps those who help themselves." Not only is this not found in the Bible (it is actually a quotation from the Koran); it is directly opposite to what the Bible actually teaches.
We talk today of people who are computer-illiterate. Yet many Christian believers are Bible-illiterate. What do you think will be the outcome of such a high rate of Bible-illiteracy?
Read Hosea 4:6. This verse was an indictment against Israel by one of her prophets. Yet it could just as easily be leveled against a sizeable portion of Christians today. Ignorance is not a luxury that we as Christians can afford.
Read 2 Corinthians 11:3. In the garden of Eden, Satan was able to leverage Eveís poor grasp of God's command to induce her to sin. And Paul says that he's afraid that the same thing is happening all over again in Christian lives. Peter, too, talks of an ignorance that causes people to distort Scripture. Read 2 Peter 3:16.
No, ignorance is not bliss. Let it never be said of us, as Jesus said of the Sadducees, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God" (Matthew 22:29).
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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summertime
Rattlesnake
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 447
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Van wrote: | | The idea that we cannot condemn homosexual behavior because of the lack of specific detail in the text is a fiction. Sexual gratification outside marriage between a man and a woman is considered sexual imorality in the Bible. Jesus goes so far as to say if you think about it with lust in your heart it is wrong. That is why in another age, modesty, plain appearance, and the like were thought to be virtueous. |
Surely, you don't equate thinking of someone with lust and thinking of someone with love is the same, do you? The bible also tells slaves to remain such if they have no opportunity to be free. Is slavery to be accepted wherever it exists today? |
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7003
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Apples and oranges.
For the slavery issue; to remain a slave if you have no opportunity to be free is simple for survival. To survive a slave until one has the opportunity to obtain freedom is preferable to dying a slave. (at least that is one interpretation.) However, that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.
| Quote: | | Surely, you don't equate thinking of someone with lust and thinking of someone with love is the same, do you? |
Does love equate to sex? No. I can think of my wife with love and desire, or lust, the two are mutually exclusive. Desire comes from love, lust does not. I do not have desire for those whom I do not love. I cannot claim love for someone I met in a bar one night.
If I do develop a love for someone, and enter into sexual relations with them - outside of marriage - that is fornication, or adultery if I am already married. Those are both sins. So explain to me how two women or two men can have relations and have the acts not be considered a sin?
It involves lust, fornication, or adultery - where is the place for love and desire in a sanctified marriage?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | explain to me how two women or two men can have relations and have the acts not be considered a sin? |
Prior to formal marriage ceremonies, marriages just were, as couples committed to each other without benefit of legal sanction and state and church. Such is still the case in much of the Third World.
But we modernists need official impranteur on everything, so you make a wonderful argument here in favor of extending the franchise of marriage to same gender couples.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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summertime
Rattlesnake
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 447
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| Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | Apples and oranges.
For the slavery issue; to remain a slave if you have no opportunity to be free is simple for survival. To survive a slave until one has the opportunity to obtain freedom is preferable to dying a slave. (at least that is one interpretation.) However, that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.
| Quote: | | Surely, you don't equate thinking of someone with lust and thinking of someone with love is the same, do you? |
Does love equate to sex? No. I can think of my wife with love and desire, or lust, the two are mutually exclusive. Desire comes from love, lust does not. I do not have desire for those whom I do not love. I cannot claim love for someone I met in a bar one night.
If I do develop a love for someone, and enter into sexual relations with them - outside of marriage - that is fornication, or adultery if I am already married. Those are both sins. So explain to me how two women or two men can have relations and have the acts not be considered a sin?
It involves lust, fornication, or adultery - where is the place for love and desire in a sanctified marriage? |
In and of itself, slavery has nothing to do with this. However, if you are going to go to the bible and point something out that is said in it in regards to an issue and imply that because it says so, then it is so, then slavery can be viewed as acceptable based on that logic.....If lust does not come from love, then Romans 1 is not speaking directly about homosexual love that can be found in a committed, monogamous relationship. Romans 1 has nothing to do with it at all. It speaks of those who deny God and the very same people who deny God eventually got involved in sexual practices of lust based on the context of idolatry. If love and lust differ, then Romans 1 is not touching on homosexual love. |
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