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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | Matthias wrote: | Do NOT confuse a loving relationship with a SEXUAL one. They are not the same. Two girlfriends can love one another, and yet have wonderful monogonous marriages with their husbands. That is completely holy. What is NOT is SEX between two same-sex people.
Don't try to blur the lines, Blondie. |
I disagree with you and would suggest to you if you believe sex with someone of the same gender is wrong, then, don't do it. But many other Christians believe otherwise and find your judgementalism offensive. It would be better if instead of horning in on others' relationships if you would just mind your own business. |
Yes, the Bible says 'judge no man'.
If people ignore God's warnings....they will pay the price for that in the Day of God's Judgment !
God has given enough warnings what he will do to homosexuals in the Bible....and God never changes ! |
This's what you said on Bible discussion forum and I addressed it there.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | Quote: | | Sexual gratification outside marriage between a man and a woman is considered sexual imorality in the Bible. |
Considering plural marriage, concubinage, and rape of captive women and servants were acceptable then, any consideration of such is ridiculous. We are a much more moral people than the ancient Hebrews even on their best days because of our ability to put love first. The Bible is a poor guide to marriage and sex. |
Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
God in the beginning of human life ordained the marriage of a man to a woman, not women. the concubines and plural marriages and raping came about as the sinful acts of mankind.
_________________
“Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” - C.S. Lewis
“Has this world been so kind to you that you should leave with regret? There are better things ahead than any we leave behind.” - C.S. Lewis |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| revmattchoo.com wrote: | | Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | Quote: | | Sexual gratification outside marriage between a man and a woman is considered sexual imorality in the Bible. |
Considering plural marriage, concubinage, and rape of captive women and servants were acceptable then, any consideration of such is ridiculous. We are a much more moral people than the ancient Hebrews even on their best days because of our ability to put love first. The Bible is a poor guide to marriage and sex. |
What about Hagar?
Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
God in the beginning of human life ordained the marriage of a man to a woman, not women. the concubines and plural marriages and raping came about as the sinful acts of mankind. |
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | What about Hagar? |
that still does not mean that it is ok with God for a man to have more than one wife. God had ordained man to have only one wife.
Abraham had a concubine named Hagar. God promised Abraham that he would have a son through Sarah. Abraham and Sarah both got impatient of waiting on God to provide offspring through her. Sarah gave Abraham the idea to go into her concubine, Hagar. Abraham and Hagar had a son named Ishmael. The problem here is that now the Islam community claims Ishmael to be the son of promise instead of Isaac.
Take Solomon for example now...He had 1000 wives and concubines put together (1 Kings 11:3). that's a lot of wives to have. this caused Solomon to turn away from his God and to turn to idolatry. now also think about this: 1000 wives could turn out to be 1000 or more heirs to the throne. how would u handle that many sons fighting for the throne?
_________________
“Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” - C.S. Lewis
“Has this world been so kind to you that you should leave with regret? There are better things ahead than any we leave behind.” - C.S. Lewis |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5301
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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How would you handle that many wifes, PERIOD 
Makes me tired just to think about it  |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| revmattchoo.com wrote: | | Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | What about Hagar? |
that still does not mean that it is ok with God for a man to have more than one wife. God had ordained man to have only one wife. |
That's certainly nothing but your own opinion. The Jews of Europe allowed polygamy up until the year 1000 CE. Then the rabbis declared they would remain monogomous for 1000 years. Though three years have passed since that anniversary with no action, they can still altar that.
When early Mormon settlers in the west practiced polygamy, various Christians back east were outraged but in a wowser-type way, outraged over their own sensual fantasies. But during those days, Utah had the highest number per capita of female doctors, as they could go back east to medical school while their sister wives cared for their children.
| Quote: | | Abraham had a concubine named Hagar. God promised Abraham that he would have a son through Sarah. Abraham and Sarah both got impatient of waiting on God to provide offspring through her. Sarah gave Abraham the idea to go into her concubine, Hagar. Abraham and Hagar had a son named Ishmael. The problem here is that now the Islam community claims Ishmael to be the son of promise instead of Isaac. |
Never is anything addressed to describe the practice of concubinage as sinful in this narrative. The fact is the Bible is a poor guide to forms of social organization. The ancient Hebrews were an uncivilized, brutal, and vicious bunch--but so also were all the other tribes that survived the transition from a hunter-gatherer economy to one based on agriculture and commerce. Without the need to hunt, cultivate, or inherit farmland, modern folk are not in need to primitive social constructs those who had these needs had.
| Quote: | | Take Solomon for example now...He had 1000 wives and concubines put together (1 Kings 11:3). that's a lot of wives to have. this caused Solomon to turn away from his God and to turn to idolatry. now also think about this: 1000 wives could turn out to be 1000 or more heirs to the throne. how would u handle that many sons fighting for the throne? |
We don't need kings or thrones either, these days. Today five kings are all we need for any reason: the King of Kings and the four in the deck of cards. Any others are useless.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | How would you handle that many wifes, PERIOD
Makes me tired just to think about it |
Carefully. I've read articles about the late Alex Joseph, patriarch of a polygamist cult of dissident Mormons from Glen Canyon, Utah. He was married to ten women. It was rather obvious, from the observations of reporters who visited the family, that any concept he was in control of the family was unrealistic.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | That's certainly nothing but your own opinion. The Jews of Europe allowed polygamy up until the year 1000 CE. Then the rabbis declared they would remain monogomous for 1000 years. Though three years have passed since that anniversary with no action, they can still altar that.
When early Mormon settlers in the west practiced polygamy, various Christians back east were outraged but in a wowser-type way, outraged over their own sensual fantasies. But during those days, Utah had the highest number per capita of female doctors, as they could go back east to medical school while their sister wives cared for their children. |
so Gen. 2:24 is only my opinion and God didn't really say that?
the rabbis were living in sin just as much as we do.
mormons are not even Christians or Jews for this fact. they hold to false teachings which go against what the Bible says.
| Quote: | | Never is anything addressed to describe the practice of concubinage as sinful in this narrative. The fact is the Bible is a poor guide to forms of social organization. The ancient Hebrews were an uncivilized, brutal, and vicious bunch--but so also were all the other tribes that survived the transition from a hunter-gatherer economy to one based on agriculture and commerce. Without the need to hunt, cultivate, or inherit farmland, modern folk are not in need to primitive social constructs those who had these needs had. |
Abraham having relations with Hagar led to Ishmael who is the one whom Muslims point to as the son of promise which is not what God ordained. God made Isaac the son of promise. due to Abraham's and Sarah's impatience, they sinned and got Ishmael.
| Quote: | | We don't need kings or thrones either, these days. Today five kings are all we need for any reason: the King of Kings and the four in the deck of cards. Any others are useless. |
im curious as to how this fits with Solomon and his 1000 wives in this context?
_________________
“Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” - C.S. Lewis
“Has this world been so kind to you that you should leave with regret? There are better things ahead than any we leave behind.” - C.S. Lewis |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| revmattchoo.com wrote: | | so Gen. 2:24 is only my opinion and God didn't really say that? |
The patriarchs said it. They didn't have a concept of homosexuality as a different sexual orientation as we do now. they practiced arranged marriages. At best the passage is poetic; it's certainly not a command. Not everyone marries heterosexually. That's okay.
| Quote: | | mormons are not even Christians or Jews for this fact. they hold to false teachings which go against what the Bible says. |
That's a little off topic. My point was it was not necessarily wrong.
| Quote: | | DBB:We don't need kings or thrones either, these days. Today five kings are all we need for any reason: the King of Kings and the four in the deck of cards. Any others are useless. |
R: im curious as to how this fits with Solomon and his 1000 wives in this context?[/quote]
It was in response to the mention of kings in the post I was quoting from.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | The patriarchs said it. They didn't have a concept of homosexuality as a different sexual orientation as we do now. they practiced arranged marriages. At best the passage is poetic; it's certainly not a command. Not everyone marries heterosexually. That's okay. |
Sodom and Gomorrah should not have been destroyed because they committed homosexuality and it was ok for them to do so?
in Rom. 1:26-27, it says that homosexuality goes against nature. a man and a woman get together to reproduce. that's what that stuff was made for. how do u get a baby from and man and man or a woman and woman? there's no way because they need one of the opposite sex to do so.
now speaking of the passage as being just poetic...what parts are poetic and what parts are not? if some of the Bible is poetic only and not truth, then what about the writings in the new testament? can we really trust that what was written about Jesus is really true?
_________________
“Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” - C.S. Lewis
“Has this world been so kind to you that you should leave with regret? There are better things ahead than any we leave behind.” - C.S. Lewis |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: |
The Bible is a poor guide to marriage and sex.
The fact is the Bible is a poor guide to forms of social organization. |
This is quite a stand on God's perfect, timeless Word. It is God's purpose to transform us to Christlikeness. The above quote seems far from this.
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| revmattchoo.com wrote: | | Sodom and Gomorrah should not have been destroyed because they committed homosexuality and it was ok for them to do so? |
There is certainly no indication at all that this was the reason for said destruction, so, the question is meaningless.
| Quote: | | in Rom. 1:26-27, it says that homosexuality goes against nature. a man and a woman get together to reproduce. that's what that stuff was made for. how do u get a baby from and man and man or a woman and woman? there's no way because they need one of the opposite sex to do so. |
Tell that to hundreds of lesbians who became pregnant and gay men who have become fathers. Ultimately, as I said on the other thread, discussion of what is 'natural' or 'normal' are only matters of opinion.
| Quote: | | now speaking of the passage as being just poetic...what parts are poetic and what parts are not? |
That's something each individual must determine.
| Quote: | | if some of the Bible is poetic only and not truth, then what about the writings in the new testament? can we really trust that what was written about Jesus is really true? |
No. Obviously various scribes embellished as they deemed fit. The truth of Christ transcends truth of lack of it in various passages. Our Bible was compiled by mortal authorities at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE, the majority of which applied their own political agenda, casting out other texts such as the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. So it is when it's suggested we should place trust in mortal humans rather than in God.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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Da Blonde Bombshell
Cobra
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY (formerly TX)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron wrote: | | Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: |
The Bible is a poor guide to marriage and sex.
The fact is the Bible is a poor guide to forms of social organization. |
This is quite a stand on God's perfect, timeless Word. It is God's purpose to transform us to Christlikeness. The above quote seems far from this. |
Only if you choose to place faith in an idolatry of the bible rather than in Christ.
_________________
"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials." (James 1:2)
"The tendency to claim God as an ally for our partisan values and ends is the source of all religious fanaticism." -Reinhold Niebuhr |
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Ron
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 750
Location: home, wa, usa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | Ron wrote: | | Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: |
The Bible is a poor guide to marriage and sex.
The fact is the Bible is a poor guide to forms of social organization. |
This is quite a stand on God's perfect, timeless Word. It is God's purpose to transform us to Christlikeness. The above quote seems far from this. |
Only if you choose to place faith in an idolatry of the bible rather than in Christ. |
To what do we test all things learned against?
What does Christ use in His temptation with the devil?
What does 2 Timothy 3:16 mean to you?
_________________
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 11:15
Yours in Christ with much love,
Ron
http://www.arkwebshost.com/theology/ron |
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revmattchoo.com
House Cat
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Da Blonde Bombshell wrote: | | Quote: | | in Rom. 1:26-27, it says that homosexuality goes against nature. a man and a woman get together to reproduce. that's what that stuff was made for. how do u get a baby from and man and man or a woman and woman? there's no way because they need one of the opposite sex to do so. |
Tell that to hundreds of lesbians who became pregnant and gay men who have become fathers. Ultimately, as I said on the other thread, discussion of what is 'natural' or 'normal' are only matters of opinion. |
how did they become a mother or father? the only way is to get the parts necessary from the opposite sex. even if there is no relation between a male and female, the female still needs that necessary thing that can only be produced in men. also, if u have seen a pregnant man, i'd like to see a picture...
| Quote: | | Quote: | | if some of the Bible is poetic only and not truth, then what about the writings in the new testament? can we really trust that what was written about Jesus is really true? |
No. Obviously various scribes embellished as they deemed fit. The truth of Christ transcends truth of lack of it in various passages. Our Bible was compiled by mortal authorities at the Council of Nicea in 325 CE, the majority of which applied their own political agenda, casting out other texts such as the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. So it is when it's suggested we should place trust in mortal humans rather than in God. |
so then, how can we trust in a God who's Word is full of possible fallicies? we cannot because we cannot know if what the Bible says is what it really says. so if that is to be true, then our faith in Christ is futile and we are still in our sins (or what we think is wrong), sending ourselves to a possible non-existent hell.
_________________
“Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” - C.S. Lewis
“Has this world been so kind to you that you should leave with regret? There are better things ahead than any we leave behind.” - C.S. Lewis |
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