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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 608
Location: Aux Arcs
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 Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | ShardikSon wrote: | | Actually, I am certain you would have never issued such a challenge had not known already what I would find. |
No, don’t assume anything. I just don’t like doing other people’s work.
There actually may be one instance that could support your assertion, but the two verses in Psalm still use the word MUTH to mean the physically dead, in that both verses have the word “like” to clearly show a comparison to the physically dead. But I’ve never seen MUTH used to indicate any “spiritually dead.” While that concept may be in the New Testament (e.g. you are dead to your sins), it was Not in the Hebrew Scriptures.
There is no verse saying something like, “The heathen who despise your name are dead among the earth.” THAT would clearly support the use of MUTH in a dual manner.
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I agree with you, However, it was not I that introduced the specific OT Hebrew term into the conversation. In English, there are several meanings of "Death" and the scriptures are interpreted from several languages, so getting fine-tuned to the meaning of the texts is a challenge.
It is plain, though, from a collection of translations, that Paul's intent to describe Death of the spirit as different from death of the body is clear.
Paul used the word Dead, in whatever language he was writing, and he intended to mean death in a different form than the physical, decaying of a body that no longer functioned.
Thank you, BTW for the challenge, I am still learning from the study.
God Bless you and may your spirit remain fresh.
_________________
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"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
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I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2870
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ShardikSon wrote: | | …it was not I that introduced the specific OT Hebrew term into the conversation. |
I thought you had when saying:
| ShardikSon wrote: | | The dead referred to in Psalms 115 are the dead of the spirit. Those who do not know God. |
When getting into cosmological assertions (i.e. factual statements about creation) one cannot “back read” foreign concepts into any portion of scripture and say, “see I told ya so…” It does a great disservice to the scriptures when one takes, say, a Greek concept of Hades and injects it into what God said about dead people through the Psalms. This is known as Conceptual Dissonance, and is a nightmare for the translator.
Dead people aren’t “living” elsewhere. They’re dead. In entirety. (At least according to the Psalmist.)
They may become resurrected later on, but if they’re dead now, they’re not living.
Of course Paul muddies up the water considerably, because since “dead” now becomes a spiritual condition of actual living people, how can we know whether things said about the dead are cosmological fact regarding life after death or figurative assertions about people who haven’t yet actually died?
Revelation makes it even more worthless to try and extract scientific fact from such a whacko LSD vision trip of nearly pure symbols.
Yehu
PS: Thank you for the edifying words. In the past I have become overwhelmed in the anguish of “mind-wrestling” with others, and really no longer wish to be combative.
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There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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ShardikSon
Bear Cub
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 608
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Yehushuan wrote: | | ShardikSon wrote: | | …it was not I that introduced the specific OT Hebrew term into the conversation. |
I thought you had when saying:
| ShardikSon wrote: | | The dead referred to in Psalms 115 are the dead of the spirit. Those who do not know God. |
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Agh! My apologies, sir!
I seem to have suffered a brainfart, there. I meant to refer to the NT references, and that was a bad editing mistake on my part. (I MUST remember to PREVIEW before posting.)
_________________
-----------
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty" - CF Kettering
“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. “- Mohandas Gandhi
--------------------
I delight greatly in the LORD;
my soul rejoices in my God...
- Isaiah 61:10 (NIV) |
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Yehushuan
King Kong
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 2870
Location: Charismatic
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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(Ya want some real fun? Try translating brainfart into Koine Greek.)
_________________
There must be a God; Natural Selection would have gotten rid of you a long time ago. |
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