Story of Gabriel and Mary,

metothezero · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:04 pm Post subject: Story of Gabriel and Mary,

In the sixth month God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, “Greetings you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you.” Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid Mary. You have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son and you are to give him the name Jesus.” [But in parenthesis, the angel is thinking, “That is the way I’ll put it to encourage her. Actually, if she does not cooperate, she will not be with child and her high favor will turn into crushing personal failure. Still, if she does cooperate it is most unlikely after this announcement that she will give him any other name except the name Jesus.”] “He will be great and be called the son of the Most High [though there is no guaranteeing what he will do, and I suppose he could veer way off coarse.] “The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end [at least that is the scenario we have every reason to expect, since God is resourceful at brining these things about. Nor will you tax his resourcefulness too much if you won’t bare the child. Of course, if you refuse, we will have to find someone else who will have some reason to go to Bethlehem for Jesus to be born because that fits best with the prophesy of Micah. Alternatively we could leave Bethlehem out of it and find some other way to make Micah’s words prophetically meaningful. Still it can be done.] “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “[Strictly, I can tell you only how it would be if you were to consent, but not precisely how it will be since that depends on you.] The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One [that will in such an event be born] will be called the Son of God. As it turns out, Elizabeth, your relative, is going to have a child in her old age and she is said to be barren is in her sixth month. [Now the ideal role is that this child should become the Baptist, the prophetic forerunner to his cousin Jesus. And God is very much hoping that you will not disappoint him and force a change of plans.] Nothing is impossible with God.” “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her [relieved].

MoJo · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:10 am Post subject:

My mother tells me sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Wink

metothezero · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:06 pm Post subject:

Your mother is a very intelligent person...I did not write this, but obviously my posting it, in some way, displays my sarcastic attitude towards a particular doctrine...I guess I showed my low wit on this one. BUT! Oh well...I thought it was quite humurous.

MoJo · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject:

Well, we all get frustrated from time to time. Keep smiling. Exclamation

Van · Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:12 am Post subject:

God chose Mary to fulfill His purpose and plan. He used sufficent influence to bring about the virgin birth. God chooses people whose hearts are well suited for the task, such that His outcome is assured. When God overrides the free will of individuals to cause them to take the actions He desires, such as hardening their hearts or sending a deluding influence, His intervention shapes events so that His purpose and plan are fulfilled.

On the other hand, did you ever wonder why God requires that we trust in His Son? If God chose us individually before the foundation of the world, and the sacrifice of Jesus paid the price necessary for our salvation, why does God need to make us believe in His Son? Why not just baptize us into the body of Christ, why the meaningless charade?

Why do the Calvinists present the gospel as an invitation with a request for a decision? Are they presenting a bait and switch doctrine? Think about it, you be the judge. Read John 1:12 and see if you think the author intended to say those that believe are compelled by magic mind manipulation. Nope, some did not receive and some received indicating choice not unmentioned compulsion.

Calvinism is an invention that turns scripture upsidedown. It makes the word of God to no effect.

ELI · Alley Cat Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 181

Van
On the other hand, did you ever wonder why God requires that we trust in His Son?

If God chose us individually before the foundation of the world, and the sacrifice of Jesus paid the price necessary for our salvation, why does God need to make us believe in His Son?

Why not just baptize us into the body of Christ, why the meaningless charade?

BY ELI

Because there's only one gate into the new Heaven and Earth -- Eternity Smile

His name is Jesus Christ

If you were taking a perilous trip through hostile seas, wouldn’t you want to know something about hurricane safety precautions?

Or at the very least -- who the captain of the boat was? Laughing

The basis of Christianity is recognizing who God is and taping into His power Jesus Christ -- how you gona “plug-in” if you can’t find the outlet in the dark?

How you gona get Jesus into your life if you fail to accept Him and by reading what He had to say?

Jesus is the Word of GOD -- Spiritually speaking, Jesus can come to you through His Word.

God bless

Peace

Van · Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 6:05 am Post subject:

If God is exercising exhaustive control over everything, the movement of every electron, every thought of every human, then why does not God just put His elect, the people He supposedly picked individually before the foundation of the world, into heaven directly. If they need to know who is the captain, just give them those thoughts.

To answer the obvious, the Calvinist view makes absolutely no sense what so ever! It is a false teaching. It makes the word of God to no effect. The Calvinist view of total control of everything turns our lives into meaningless charades. The divine Matrix Wink

Bridget · Rattlesnake Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 443

I don't understand Van why you keep dwelling on Calvinism. If you don't want to be a Baptist don't, what difference does it make if others believe in Calvin. Personally I don't agree with any of the men who wrote their own religion into the scheme of things. I believe unity is very very important and somehow we need to be one church. Christ's church using Christ's teachings.

Van · Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 10:20 am Post subject:

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

I might interject ... that when in the throws of a challenge, what to believe, ? what to reject ? it is almost always best to remember one thing :

It is far better to place your faith in God and Christ than to place your faith in what you have read ... studied ... heard at seminar's ... were tought in sunday school ... over heard at a prayer meeting / bible study group ... etc. ...

That way ... in the end ... even though you read, study, attend church, worship God, love the Lord Jesus, eschew evil ... by placing your trust and faith directly on the one and only powerful Almighty God ... it becomes His responsibility to open up the truth to and for you.

Because once we give our self to Him ... I mean that in a very real but spiritual sense ... the only things that we can ever really know for certain are the things that He illuminates our consciousness with.

All else is carnal philosophy ( the rudiments of the world, Colossians 2:7 ( all of Colossians chapter 2 ), and man made theology!

Always keep your faith simple and centered directly on Christ.

That way, when ever you are tested to the limit, you can always look to Him and say," my life is your hands Jesus ... not mine!" then He becomes solely responsible to finish what ever troubles you.

Hint : He won't do it ( because He doesn't feel responsible for you ) if you still have the controls in your own hands. You have to hand them over to Him, and that especially includes your faith in Him.

( I have an appropriate story to depict this interesting point if you are interested in hearing (( reading )) it )

thunder

Van · Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:55 pm Post subject:

When we study scripture and try and discern the author's intended message, the straightforward understanding is most likely to be correct. I knew a scientist once, years ago, who was gifted in discerning reality from data. One of his watchwords was "If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." Not bad me thinks.

thunder · Lion King Joined: 13 Sep 2003 Posts: 1222

"If you torture the data long enough ... it will confess to anything."

That is pretty good.

Kind of like going with your first instinct.

Very often true ... but as the saying goes ... God does not shoot dice.

I'm not sure what that means ... but it sounds interesting.

The good news is that God does know everything, has had plenty of time to see it all at work and when we trust Him, He is very effective.

thunder

Van · Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:11 am Post subject:

As I have pointed out before, God could know everything for all things are possible with God. On the other hand, God could choose not to know everything if that was His purpose and plan. The passages that say God knows all things in context say God knows all the hidden things within the heart of those God is relating to. God can choose to read us like an open book. When Peter said that Jesus knows all things, the context was that Jesus knew that Peter loved Jesus like a brother.

However, God can choose not to look into our hearts if that is what He wants to do. Abraham and Isaac demonstrate that God can choose to determine what is in our heart by testing us.

To hold to an absolutist position, God must fit the absolutist point of view, rather than what the Bible actually teaches is to limit God. However, the Bible is clear, God does what He pleases.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 6845 Location: USA

Just out of curiosity Van, are there scriptures that tell us this

Van · Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:35 pm Post subject:

As referenced in my post, the story of Abraham and Isaac illustrates an instance when God did not look into Abraham's heart, but tested Abraham, and when Abraham raised the knife to slay his son Isaac, then God stopped Abraham and said "Now I know you fear the Lord". (Gen.
22:12)

There are other examples where God chooses to test people to discover what is in their heart. Since God could search their heart and discover there hidden motives and attitudes, God choosing another path (testing) illustrates God doing what satisfies His purpose and plan.