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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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 Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Is the Bible 'enough' for church growth? |
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| Quote: | | "Is the Bible sufficient for church growth and health?" I'm not suggesting that we don't need to organize for Bible study and outreach. God is not a God of confusion; He works through orderly strategy. But do we really agree with the Apostle Paul that it is "God who gives the growth" (1 Corinthians 3:7)? And if it is God who actually causes true growth, it only makes sense that we find His design for these matters in His Word. We face the temptation of relying too heavily on the next model, method or marketing strategy to grow our church, rather than looking primarily to Scripture for our growth strategy. I believe that if we search the Scriptures and apply their emphases, we will experience the growth and health the Lord desires. Consider these points with me... |
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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ChristianWoman1
Labrador
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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I completley enjoyed reading this ! thank you!!
We are in the process of receiving a new pastor this sunday...ours had retired...and to read this is SO refreshing. I"m extremely tired of hearing people in our congregation blame our present pastor for all the troubles  if only they would rely on the Scripture!!
Thanks again for posting this... I think I"ll make copies 
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Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
ROMANS 12:2 |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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I thought it was very good, too. Glad you found value in it. 
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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As I have indicated in earlier articles, I am convinced that a primary obstacle to church health is our spiritual myopia which generates apathy. Many Christians behave as if the church were established to meet their needs and to keep them comfortable and entertained until Christ returns. I refer to this as the "Love Boat Syndrome." We behave as if the Ship of Zion is the Love Boat. The role of the captain and staff is to entertain and cater to the needs of the passengers while they enjoy a pleasurable cruise to Glory. Everything is fine as long as the food is sufficient, the music restful, the waters calm and no one moves my deck chair. But in reality, the Ship of Zion is a hospital ship and there are no deck chairs on a hospital ship! |
Ship of Zion............ 
Can't dispute that one!
Nice article.
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Pain is inevitable;
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RevJP
Moderator
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 7005
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Paul provides even more detail in Ephesians 4:11-16 when he indicates that the work of the pastor/teacher is to equip saints for the work of ministry. It is through the ministry of every individual part, empowered by its head, Christ, that the body builds itself. Listen to the Word of God: "From Him the whole body, fitted and knit together by every supporting ligament, promotes the growth of the body for building up itself in love by the proper working of each individual part" (4:16).
Do we believe that God's Word is true? Do we believe it is sufficient? If we respond with the affirmative, then the healthy growth of your church is not dependent on human cunning or strategy, but in working in cooperation with the purposes of God through the power of the Spirit as we seek to know and apply the living Word of God. |
Wow, almost sounds as if he is leading credence to the 5 solas....
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Psa 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man. |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| RevJP wrote: | | Quote: | Paul provides even more detail in Ephesians 4:11-16 when he indicates that the work of the pastor/teacher is to equip saints for the work of ministry. It is through the ministry of every individual part, empowered by its head, Christ, that the body builds itself. Listen to the Word of God: "From Him the whole body, fitted and knit together by every supporting ligament, promotes the growth of the body for building up itself in love by the proper working of each individual part" (4:16).
Do we believe that God's Word is true? Do we believe it is sufficient? If we respond with the affirmative, then the healthy growth of your church is not dependent on human cunning or strategy, but in working in cooperation with the purposes of God through the power of the Spirit as we seek to know and apply the living Word of God. |
Wow, almost sounds as if he is leading credence to the 5 solas.... |
Expound Brother!
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Pain is inevitable;
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GospelCompilation
Bear
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 699
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| the author of the article wrote: | | "The healthy growth of your church is not dependent on human cunning or strategy, but in working in cooperation with the purposes of God through the power of the Spirit as we seek to know and apply the living Word of God." |
That sounds really impressive and important, but what does it mean and how to does a church do it? |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| GospelCompilation wrote: | | the author of the article wrote: | | "The healthy growth of your church is not dependent on human cunning or strategy, but in working in cooperation with the purposes of God through the power of the Spirit as we seek to know and apply the living Word of God." |
That sounds really impressive and important, but what does it mean and how to does a church do it? |
Good questions. Let's start with the basics.
Working in cooperation with the purposes of God.
What are the purposes of God?
Do we know?
Thru the power of the Holy Spirit we seek to apply the Word of God.
Long story short, we have no idea what we are doing.
And those who are in the clergy, claim to know the answers, and lead us, but I'm finding they know no better than we do.
What I have learned is, we are all the same in the eyes of God. Come to me as a child. A child doesn't come to anyone proclaiming to know the "truth". A child comes with a trusting heart, knowing that their parent will provide.
We need to remember what it means to be 3 years old.
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Pain is inevitable;
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ChristianWoman1
Labrador
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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11 wrote:
What I have learned is, we are all the same in the eyes of God. Come to me as a child. A child doesn't come to anyone proclaiming to know the "truth". A child comes with a trusting heart, knowing that their parent will provide.
We need to remember what it means to be 3 years old.
wow...you are SO spot on!! absolutely!
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Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.
ROMANS 12:2 |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | What I have learned is, we are all the same in the eyes of God. Come to me as a child. A child doesn't come to anyone proclaiming to know the "truth". A child comes with a trusting heart, knowing that their parent will provide.
We need to remember what it means to be 3 years old. |
Are we to mature in the faith or forever remain three year olds, who don't come to anyone proclaiming to know the truth?
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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eleven
King of the Jungle
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1561
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Mattathias wrote: | | eleven wrote: | What I have learned is, we are all the same in the eyes of God. Come to me as a child. A child doesn't come to anyone proclaiming to know the "truth". A child comes with a trusting heart, knowing that their parent will provide.
We need to remember what it means to be 3 years old. |
Are we to mature in the faith or forever remain three year olds, who don't come to anyone proclaiming to know the truth? |
Matthew 11 (no coincidences)
25At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
I'll go with the child, thanks.
11 - Thanks Dad!!!
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| eleven wrote: | | I'll go with the child, thanks. |
As is your right.
| Quote: | | My friends, stop thinking like children. Think like mature people and be as innocent as tiny babies. I Corinthians 14:20 (CEV) |
| Quote: | | By now you should have been teachers, but once again you need to be taught the simplest things about what God has said. You need milk instead of solid food. Hebrews 5:12 (CEV) |
| Quote: | | We must try to become mature and start thinking about more than just the basic things we were taught about Christ. We shouldn't need to keep talking about why we ought to turn from deeds that bring death and why we ought to have faith in God. Hebrews 6:1 (CEV) |
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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Silver Surfer
Emperor of the World
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 3255
Location: Hayden, Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Is the Bible 'enough' for church growth? |
Actually, the larger the church, it is evidence that they are further from God.
I know this may sound strange, but it is a Biblical fact.
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
In the area in which I live, there is a church that boasts about 9,000 members.
A few miles from that church, is a church that boasts about 3,000 members.
Both of these churches have people in them that smoke and curse.
I work with people from both churches.
And, I've talked with them.
My question is this.......What are they teaching people over there ?
Another thing I've noticed is the total lack of Bible knowledge, among those people.
They don't know, and don't care to know.
I have gotten the impression that those churches are more or less social clubs.
Entertainment, is what seems to attracts them to go there.
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. |
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Mattathias
King Kong
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 2040
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Silver Surfer wrote: | | My question is this.......What are they teaching people over there ? |
It's a great question. Why not visit them and find out first hand for yourself what they're teaching?
One of the assignments we had in OT preaching and NT preaching courses in college was to visit churches where pastors had a different style of preaching from the style that the student was familiar with in the church (s)he regularly attended. (I visited an SDA church, a synagogue and a mosque.) I found it to be a valuable experience.
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"All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price." - Juvenal |
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tfsouth
Newbie Alert
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: What do you consider church growth? |
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I'm new to this discussion thing........but wanted to jump in here! Thanks for all the insight you have given me.
I think the question is "what do you consider church growth?" Are you looking for numbers or spiritual maturity? It is my personal experience that when I focus on the Lord and His Word then I grow closer to Him and have a stronger desire to do His will. His will is for me to be a witness. His will is for me to love Him and to show that love by loving all of his children. If we focus on Him spiritual growth will occur. If spiritual growth is occurring then His people are being the witness they are called to be and the global church will see an increase in number.
I have found myself judgmental toward larger churches as a response that I attend a small church (about 50 people). I was given this insight recently: God uses everyone/every church that makes themselves available to Him. He has a purpose for the small church (reaching out in His name on a personal basis) and He has a purpose for the large church (financially able to help in widespread crises or fund ministries that a small church cannot). If we leave it in His hands then He will use the church, no matter what the numbers are. |
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