Jesus Proved, Humans CAN Keep the Commandments

Silver Surfer

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
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Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

james · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject:

Besides Christ, name me one human who keeps all 10 commandments perfectly. I ask this knowing you believe commandment here refers to the "10"

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject:

ragman13 · German Shepherd Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 325

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject:

james · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject:

paul553 · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:06 am Post subject:

Luk 1:5 In the days of Herod, King of Y'hudah, there was a cohen named Z'kharyah who belonged to the Aviyah division. His wife was a descendant of Aharon, and her name was Elisheva.
Luk 1:6 Both of them were righteous before God, observing all the mitzvot and ordinances of Adonai blamelessly.

paul553 · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:45 am Post subject:

Yeshua says that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharisees we cannot enter the haShamayim(Kingdom of Heaven). Yeshua was using them as a metaphor for 'keeping the law'.

The fact is that they were not Keeping God's Law at all; they had perverted God's Law and even replaced at least the 5th commandment with traditions of men. The Babylonian Talmud goes so far as to say: Whoever is careful with Shabbat observance will be forgiven all his sins, even idolatry (Shabbath 118B). Tanna DeBei Eliyahu states: "Whoever studies Torah Law every day is guaranteed to go to heaven". They totally missed the aim of Torah and the promise of the ceremonial law - That they needed a Savoir to pardon them and that the promise of His coming was embedded in the feasts of Israel and Temple ceremony. It wasn't unbelief in God they suffered from, it was thier unbelief of their need for God's salvation.

When confronted by the angel in the Holy of Holies,Z'kharyah questioned the angel. He suffered from unbelief, because his faith in his circumstance (he was old a and his wife was beyond her childbirth years) exceeded his faith in God.

So even though Luke reports Z'kharyah was blameless in Torah, he still sinned, and that sin was unbelief.

So then, was Z'kharyah 'saved' by his own works? No. Torah was not intended as a path to salvation. It was not intended to become a practice of works.

This is why Yeshua says our righteousness must exceed Torah observence. Without the trust in God that Abram demonstrated, we cannot keep even the Sh'ma - "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength." Love is a verb, not a noun in this context. Love means to trust with faith displayed by Abram (among other things). Love is a motivator more than an emotion in God's economy. God always loves us through His Good Works.

Faith establishes Torah because it reveals sin as our 'falling short' of God's standard, condemning us. By receiving Yeshua's forgiveness and atonement we admit the righteouosness of the Law and its judgement of us. For example if a condemned criminal accepts a pardon he is admitting his guilt to the crimes that put him under condemnation. If he refuses to admit guilt, he would not be able to accept the free gift of pardon. By our faith in Yeshua (accepting His free pardon), we establish the Law. By accepting pardon, we come under the jurisdiction and authority of Yeshua, and are severed from the jurisdiction and authority and the condemnation From breaking a Torah command. Does that make Torah 'bad'? Nope. We are merely under the jurisdictiona and authority of Messiah. How much greater is the One who offeres His pardon, but then how much greater is the condemnation of the one who rejects His pardon?

Blessed is our LORD.

george · Tadpole Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 26 Location: ohio

I would consider the larger question to be why should one attempt to keep the commandments. According to Silver Surfer’s first post I assume he thinks we need to do so to be loved of God. I don’t consider that to be true. God loves us while we are yet sinners.

While I would not argue that Jesus sinned personally, I hold that he was a sinner born among sinners. Keeping the commandments/law did save him from death. He too died for the wages of sin.

So my question is why ought we (or must we) keep the commandments?

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject:

george · Tadpole Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 26 Location: ohio

Silver Surfer · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject:

george · Tadpole Joined: 11 Nov 2007 Posts: 26 Location: ohio

Silver Surfer,

It would appear that if I follow your logic than it would be impossible for God to ever declare me righteous if I ever sin. You seem to insist that guilt rests with the offender even if the sentence is picked up by another. Thus according to you righteousness cannot come through faith in someone outside of myself but only by the deeds within myself.

I assume this is why you argue for keeping the commandments because to you salvation is dependent on you fulfilling the law. I, however, know that I cannot keep the law personally so I rely on another source for my salvation. I rest in the work done on my behalf by Jesus who fulfilled the law in my stead so that its requirement is full met without my aid. I believe that He took my sin so that I could take his righteousness. I keep the law through faith and not by works. I wish you success on doing it by works.

paul553 · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:01 am Post subject:

james · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:18 am Post subject:

When Christ tells us "go and sin no more" is He telling us to live a life keeping the law or for us to live a life in faith?
For without faith it is impossible to please Him - Heb 11:6
For whatsoever is not of faith is sin - Rom 14:23
And we also could refer to the whole book of Galatians, 3:19-27 in particular, which tells us the law was given until the seed (Christ)should come and it was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justifies by faith and once faith has come we are no longer under the law.