What purpose to tracking the End?

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

I want to know to what purpose some track the 'end times' as they believe them to be? What commandment of God, or admonision of the The Word tells believers to wait with baited breath for the end of the world?

What drives some to believe that a work of fiction like "Left Behind" is a true and accurate interpretation of the book of Revealations?

I was taught that the Gospel of Christ is His love for us and His Grace. I was also taught that no one knows the hour of His return, so why the efforts to pinpoint the time of His coming?

This reminder was recently posted on another site by ENOCH:

Fake · Tiger Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 862

RevJP,

I miss out on options for someone that don't submit to a religion, my only offer of a poll reply is "Yes - I'm tired of this world and want to see it end."
This is not a solution for me Wink

But I guess the poll is more directed to fellow christians Smile

Fake
_________________
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

“If there is a God, atheism must seem to Him as less of an insult than religion.”

Zathrus · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:57 am Post subject: none of the above

I think that if we were indeed in the end times, that there would be a point in tracking them. Jesus told the disciples to watch for His coming and warned them of the consequences of not doing so.
However, all of these admonitions by Jesus were in response to the question of when the temple and the old covenant order would be brought to an end.

There is no need to watch for something that has already occurred.

Captain Vegetable · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 3:56 pm Post subject:

I believe it is important to watch for the signs so the false prophet can be quickly and possitively identified.
_________________
It is better to light a single candle then to curse the darkness.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Okay Cpt, assuming that you are purporting a valid reason to track the end times, how do we know what the signs are? Are we to accept the Lehaye view of the end?
_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

Captain Vegetable · Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:11 pm Post subject:

I don't exactly know. Wink

The biggest indicator to me would be the 3 and a half year breach of a 7 year peace treaty with Israel. The man who breaks the deal can be identified with the false profit.

Outside of that, we'll just have to let the Spirit guide us.

I think I see what you're saying concerning the topic of this thread. It is necessarily important to study the end times, but is it so important that we should argue about it? I would have to say no. Jesus would be shamed by us if during His return we were all up in arms concerning His return...and probably even a little displaced by irony. Wink

_________________
It is better to light a single candle then to curse the darkness.

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

As a pastor on another site I frequent joked:

Some are Pre-Trib, some are Mid-Trib, some are Post-Trib.. I am "Pan-Trib"... I believe it will all "PAN" out in the end... that the saved will get to heaven, the lost will not, and only God knows when He will return.

My biggest problem is not with the debate over the 'end times' who is wrong, who is right, etc. But with the fact that Christians ARE debating it. The only reason I can see for so much effort being put into end times debate and study is to try to identify when the second coming will occur, or if it is about to.

I see no reason for this. We are told that no one knows the hour, why then do we try to figure it out? Is it a tactic we use to draw unbelievers to Christ? Is that the tactic we should use? Is not the love and Grace of God sufficient enough reasons for men to come to Christ? Is it necessary for us to try scare tactics? If we walk the walk of Christ, live a Christ-like life and exude the love, grace, goodness, peace, contentment, and joy, of God in our daily endeavors, isn't that what will truly bring other to Him?

If we are tracking the end times for our own edification are we not decieving ourselves? Is not our edification to be the testemony of Christ and God's love? The end is near, Scripture tells us that, but near to what? The end of the world which can be thousands or millions of years away? We, as many before us, assume that the end will come in our lifetime, we focus part of our minds and hearts - if not all of it - on the second coming and our final reward rather than focusing on our time here and now, and our reward for living in Christ and doing the work we are told by him to do:

Beeblebrox · Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:06 pm Post subject:

I wanted to touch on a couple of things with this subject. The first being the whole "scare" tactic of drawing believers. I recently accepted Christ as my savior, and avoided all churches for years because of the "scare" tactics used. Ironically; it was the series "Left Behind" which eventually got me to look at the Bible. I have learned that we are not to fear God, but rejoice in him. This is something that I never could have even thought of years ago, much less understand.

The second thing is "Left Behind". There seems to be a lot of discussion on this series within the church, and to me it seems foolish. The series is fictional, "based" on the book of Revelation. Why so many people seem to have a hard time seperating it as a series based on and that of scripture is beyond me. It is a very good series, and if it gets more people to return to the flock and open their eyes; then it is even better than the words contained within. None of the books in that series are scripture, and should not be seen in that light.

As far as tracking the end times; see the signs, but do not try to count the hour. Jesus said to be prepared, but that none know the hour of his return.

May the joy of Christ be with you.

Winston · Big Goldfish Joined: 26 Nov 2003 Posts: 74

Revjp, I like how you present your topics and discussions

You stated that:

Nobby · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:18 pm Post subject: Welcome!

Hi Winston,
I want to welcome you to our board! Smile

We have a good group here. If you like to debate & discussion of the bible you have come to the right place.
If you have questions. I'm sure you'll find answers.
Or you can e-mail Me, be looking for your posts. Wink

nobby10@socket.net
_________________
Much Love Nobby
CVP Smilies
dictionary Bible

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA

Yes indeed Winston. Welcome. Smile

_________________
JP's Mind - my blog

Holywind · Goldfish Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 61

Blessed is he that READS and they that HEAR the words of this prophecy and keep those things which are written therein, for the time is at hand.
(Rev. 1:3)

If you find you've had enough of end time talk, it's probably because you're reading 200 page books written by people who know someone who read a 400 page book on what someone else said they read in a 600 page commentary about the book of Revelation.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is only 22 pages long, in my Bible. I've read it countless times and been blessed EVERY SINGLE TIME I've read it, just like it says I would be in Rev. 3:1.

I was raised in a denomination that was, and still is, rabbidly "Pre-Trib Rapture".

I believed that with all my heart for 20 years. Then, because I was set on becoming a Pastor in that denomination, in preparation, the Lord told me to go through all the teachings I had been taught reading JUST THE BIBLE, and NO COMMENTARIES. I could have a "Center Reference" column for referrences only. This was so I would be able to share with others directly from the Bible, those things we believed. I set my heart to obey that instruction from the Lord and have NEVER AGAIN studied His word using commentaries. I was not trying to DISPROVE any of the doctrines I had been taught for 20 years (from age 6 to 26) for I truly believed everything I had been taught was the whole truth.

Oscar Mayer Company used to have a cute little kid singing about their meat. "My bologna has a first name, it's O-S-C-A-R . . . remember that?

That little tune kinda fits here . . . "My bologna has a first name, it's P-R-E TRIB - RAP . . .

It is IMPOSSIBLE to come up with PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE if you are reading JUST THE BIBLE.

I know ALL the "I Believe", "I Believe", "I Believe" scenarios that try to circumvent what the scripture PLAINLY says. You're on dangerous ground when you "take away from the words of the book of this prophecy" or "add to them".

I challenge you to read ALL 22 PAGES of Revelation 10 times without reading a single commentary note. That's equivelant to reading one 220 page book about this book. YOU'LL BE BLESSED and IT WILL MAKE A WATCHER OF END TIMES out of you.

Oh, by the way, it WILL get you driven out of MOST churches. They will literally kick you out with great hostility! It has happened to me, many times, HALLELUJAH!!!!! T
_________________
Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be afraid, rightly dividing (correctly parsing) the word of truth.

Van · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:25 am Post subject:

Holywind, Revelation is much longer in my Bible - 27 pages - but then the bottom third of many of the pages is filled with study notes. Laughing

Zathrus · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Why Track the end times

RevJP · Moderator Joined: 18 Apr 2003 Posts: 7005 Location: USA